You Cannot Take Them Seriously.

Its very country specific and its still a difference from powering a power-plant with fossil fuel vs to run a car on fossil fuel in terms of efficiency and pollution and energy use.
Also, its about 50/50 when it comes to clean energy vs fossil energy in the US and about the same in the EU.

 

A power plant running large gas turbines are commonly dual/multi-fuel nat gas, diesel, kerosine, etc. Clean burn is dicated by what they are running off of that week/month. The emissions of a single car compared to even a smaller, aerial-derivative single gas turbine(meaning- literally a converted jet engine) are night and day. And I've seen multiple turbine plants with each engine nearly the size of the Good-Year Blimp.

 

Greenies in NZ banned gas and coal exploration, so we are shipping coal from China to power the turbines during the water shortage.
Narrow minded to me

 

J.D.;
EVs or not, it seems you need to upgrade your infrastructure. From what I read elsewhere though (California’s Clean Transportation Program), I got the impression that your state is mainly taking the hydrogen route to zero-emission cars? It would have been highly interesting to see how this works where there is not enough electric power available or the grid is insufficient. There are plenty of areas in this world in the same situation or worse, like South Africa with its rolling blackouts.

On the other hand, in other countries and regions this is not a problem. And the manufacturers have now finally started introducing EVs that in most aspects are equal to or better than ICE cars. Cars with all-wheel drive, good towing capacity and long range. Look at Audi e-Tron, Volvo XC40, VW ID.4, Skoda Enyaq Ford Mustang Mach-E, and that’s just the beginning. Ford has even announced their F-150 as an EV for 2022. In my country, six of the ten most sold models last month were all-electric, the remaining four were hybrids.

We got our Volvo XC40 in February, and we couldn’t be happier. We mainly charge at home on low night rates, and when we recently did an 8 hour trip we topped up the battery on rapid chargers twice when stopped for our half hour coffee breaks and arrived at the same time as we would in our ICE car. The car only required one stop, it is us who need more. We’re not romantic tree-huggers, it’s simply that this way we got a car that does everything we could possibly want from a car and more, to a fraction of ICE car costs. 4.6 sec 0-60 is always nice, but what we really enjoy is the 487 footpounds of instant torque while trailering our 1500 kg boat.

I’ll always love my classic car and the old Triumph, but with other parts of my heart.

 

Cool, didn't know that they were "multifuel" in the way you describe it.
But what do you mean by the single car vs single gas turbine? You mean the emissions of the turbine is a lot less if you calculate the energy it produces that can be used?

 

Have a look into how much electricity/energy it takes to produce petrol, its quite a lot....

 

35 years ago my environmental science professor told us “There’s no such thing as a free lunch”. His theory was that for just about everything that is produced, consumed, or used on a regular basis, there are negative effects on the back end. This is a true today as it was 35 years ago.
I see no difference between, drilling underground to mine precious minerals, and running 100s of acres of landscape with wind turbines or solar panels.
What are we going to do with electric cars when they are junk? I can’t even put an old TV in the trash because of all the electronics! I guarantee we will be paying too “dispose of” these things in the future.
I will be putting my foot on the “gas pedal” as long as I can .

 

I totally agree on the "there's no free lunches" but have never used it as a reason to stop being innovative or adapt to new tech, that's a new one.

What to do with old electric cars when they are junk..?? The same thing as we do with todays cars, we scrap them. I don't really understand why people are making EV's into such a big problem. Its a bit like hearing non motorcycle riders waffling on how bad motorcycles are without ever having sat on one or spent 5 minutes being open to the fact that "shit, I don't much about these metal horses, maybe I shouldn't just hate them before ever ridden one"

So why don't I have an EV yet, well, for starters its a case of actually being able to charge the car. I live in a housing cooperative with a majority of people there being over 50. Most of them aren't interested in new tech (just to fibre to get a decent internet connection was a fight).
So there are challenges to say the least, big and small.

 

Looked at electric cars recently with a view to changing mine, not too bothered about a car being ICE or electric, but electric still too impractical for me currently.
Way too expensive still, most can't have a tow bar fitted, short range and too long to refuel on long journeys amongst other things.
Also the technology is still changing too much and is inconsistent with things like chargers etc, in a few years time the current electrical cars will be out of date.
Once the various problems are sorted out then I might reconsider, but it'll probably be another diesel or hang on to the current one for me for now

 

I'm on the lookout for another smoker right now, hopefully last me a good while. Leccy car wouldn't be any use to me, er, currently, let alone all the considerations of compatibility, etc as previous poster outlined.

 

There's also the question of replacement battery cost. I had my previous Honda Civic for ten years with just servicing, tyres, brakes and wiper blades to pay for. How many new batteries would a leccy car need and how much would they be ?

 

If you need to ask, you can't afford it....................

 

https://electrek.co/2020/06/06/tesla-battery-degradation-replacement/

Also, most manufacturers can swap individual cells (I know VW made a point out of that they could years ago).

 

Its interesting how a lot of people (including myself) sometimes are so negative to new technology and some that are haven't done basic research or even tested it. Why is that?

I remember a similar discussion when ABS was introduced on bikes, the rants could create threads that were miles long. All from its destroying the feel to that some insisted that they were better than the ABS system.

And why do we, if something new comes along, need it to be so much better rather than a smaller improvement to be convinced?
Is the hate towards EV political, people don't wanna taken for someone who is caring about the environment and voting for the "green party"?

Sure, EV's aren't perfect but neither are ICE, and even more interesting to see is how the old rivals that used to fight about Diesel vs Petrol, now have joined forces against EV's.

 

That sounds ok but that's Tesla. Most people would be looking at bottom to mid range cars. What guarentee do you get on those ?

 

Only one manufacturer (renault) has a "battery health" indicator in its s/w so you can see.....
I certainly wouldn't buy a second hand one unless I knew what the actual state was of the batteries and it'd be interesting to see what they are after daily charging after 3 years.
I have a hybrid (Peugeot 508sw) and it's advertised range is 39.... MAX i've ever seen is 31 and minimum was 16. Shocking.
I took it in to the main garage as I (still) think something is wrong and the response? "they will never do as advertised sir and thats normal"

 

I think google is your friend there. All cars have different warranties. And as with all things it can be country specific too.

I know VW talked about the individual cell swap when E-Golf was launched.
And since there is a market for used batteries it would be interesting to know what the "used" battery is worth when it reaches 80% or something after 300-400 thousand kilometres and 10 years ownership.

There is lots of talks about "second life" so I can absolutely see a market for it.
https://www.mckinsey.com/industries...eries-the-newest-value-pool-in-energy-storage

These are the things that manufacturers need to tell customers in an "easy to understand" way. And also with some sort of promise that "when your battery reaches 80% we will provide you with an option to upgrade to a new one or a maybe an improved battery".

Maybe something like this but done by the manufacturer.
https://www.bmwblog.com/2021/02/03/upgrade-battery-bmw-i3/