Unable To Wheelie

Discussion in 'Technical Help' started by Sage Craver NREMT, Mar 7, 2021.

  1. Gyp

    Gyp Well-Known Member

    May 13, 2020
    391
    63
    United Kingdom
    This seems to be the world record for wheelies done on a stock 200cc bike for the Indian book of records and ignores lots of other high speed wheelie records
     
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  2. And for those who would look down upon wheelies as so say they are dangerous. For your expensive machine, yes. They can be. But not so much for you. if you mess it up it is likely your motorcycle will be carried away from you by momentum as you are thrown back and slide. I would recon your landing is more predictable than a lowside in a corner. In the few cases people are injured enough to call for an ambulance i have seen large abrasions over the back and spine, one with suspected rib fractures, one with injuries to an unprotected hand. both times by people who had no jacket, Both times their helmet saved their head, and the bikes continued into the side of the road. As far as deadly persuits. I can tell you that I see many deaths by those exceeding the speed limit, almost all fatalities are without a helmet, and a respectable portion of those deaths happen in a secondary collision. Such as guardrails, trees, curbs, buildings and any rigid object along the roadway. Riders are interrupted at speed, many times at intersections or while cornering, and flip or slide impacting these objects after they are thrown and before they come to a stop. sometimes being hit a third time by vehicles behind. I never have seen bystanders or those in cars injured by a motorcycle crash, although I’m sure it happens, it is rare. My overall point is low to medium speed tricks, like wheelies, are not something to be scoffed at, they teach you how to work with your machine in new and exciting ways, and although injuries are common, they are far less severe that the injuries of someone who can only drive fast forward. Oh, and you only have to wear gear over the things you want still there when you come come a stop. And half helmets are a joke, say goodbye to your mouth and nose.
     
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  3. andyc1

    andyc1 Lunarville 7, Airlock 3

    Feb 4, 2017
    2,927
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    N. Ireland
    Wheelies, its not big and its not clever.... but its fun when the front lifts :rolleyes: isn't that why we own bikes? Time and a place for everything!
     
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  4. Hey you! I’m having a bit of hesitance clutching up. I think I’m going to modify the air fuel mixture and sprocket to get more power, im taking off the snorkel today and I’ll be adding a high flow air filter (K&N), cat delete (xpipe) and exhaust along with a booster plug (like a power commander) and going up one tooth in the rear sprocket (alum/steel hybrid)
     
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  5. andyc1

    andyc1 Lunarville 7, Airlock 3

    Feb 4, 2017
    2,927
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    N. Ireland
    Its not really a wheeling sort of bike to be honest, I haven't even tried clutching mine. Have lifted the front over crests in second though. Sprockets may make a difference but you might need more than 1 tooth in the rear for a noticeable difference.
     
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  6. #26 Sage Craver NREMT, Mar 22, 2021
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2021
    I’m actually not hoping for that big of a difference, i hear triumph intentionally gears low for emissions, im just trying to derestrict the machine and have it perform freely, how the manufacturer intended, without all of the BS added for regulation, I’ll post below a picture of some of the things I had to cut so far.
     
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  7. It’s not like I got this bike to wheelie, I just don’t like not having the option, the bike feels restrained, like it’s breathing through a straw. I just want to se what it can do when it’s tuned to its maximum potential.
     
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  8. andyc1

    andyc1 Lunarville 7, Airlock 3

    Feb 4, 2017
    2,927
    1,000
    N. Ireland
    I have an x pipe on mine. Does help
     
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  9. Pegscraper

    Pegscraper Elite Member

    Jun 12, 2020
    3,280
    800
    Yorkshire
    Referring back to the OP, the Street Twin is quite a heavy bike, much of the weight quite far forward with not much power, delivered in a very linear fashion so probably isn't the easiest bike to wheelie. Power wheelies require either a pronounced power step or a lot of power. A ZZR 1400 is way heavier than the ST and has quite a long wheelbase and can power wheelie but it comes down with a hell of a thump! Ideally, get yourself a dirtbike, either a 2 smoke with a nice power step or a big single 4 stroke, to practice on. They're much lighter than any road bike and when you fall off you have a softer landing....usually :p
     
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  10. Gyp

    Gyp Well-Known Member

    May 13, 2020
    391
    63
    United Kingdom
    #30 Gyp, Mar 23, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
    It's not the wrong gearing.
    It's not the catalytic converter.
    It's not the snorkel.
    It's not the lack of booster plug.
    It's not the exhaust.
    It's not the air filter.

    It's a lack of skill.



    Click to 8.25 or 8.43 or even better 9.05

    For the record, I share that lack of skill.
     
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  11. Jadorff

    Jadorff Noble Member

    Apr 14, 2019
    879
    443
    Adelaide Australia
    yes I keep both wheels on the ground I feel safer ,at my age bones break easy
     
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  12. The inability for the bike to power wheelie in first gear is a lack of skill? Let me be clear, I spent about an hour trying this in a parking lot the night before I posted this. I set my rider mode to street, set traction control to off, and ABS is mandatory (im going to try pulling the abs fuse at a later date and swing if that works) I got a rolling start at 10mph in first gear and went full open throttle, all the way to the rev limiter, and held it there. Although the front suspension completely lifts, and the acceleration is rough, The bike dies not power wheelie in first. It’s not a maybe, or a my fault, it just doesn’t. it’s a brand new 900cc bike and I’m 190pds. It just doesn’t do it. I have years of experience in clutch up wheelies on my 300 and heard that suggestion earlier form Andy, to try in second gear, I’m a bit hesitant as it still has the factory shine, but when I get frame sliders, axle sliders, and case covers I’m going to give it a shot.
    Also the bike in the video while it has the same displacement it does have internal differences causing the torque to come on at a lower RPM.
    And the engine on the Street twin is all sorts of jacked up, give this a look.
     
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  13. Gyp

    Gyp Well-Known Member

    May 13, 2020
    391
    63
    United Kingdom
    You need to be careful with the comparisons as the video you linked to is for the first generation Street Twin rather than the 2019-on second generation which has a bit more go at higher revs, though Triumph claim the same peak torque for both.

    You're right that there is a difference in power delivery etc between the ST and the SS but in practical terms the differences are minimal.

    Simply being a 900 doesn't mean that the bike is definitely going to wheelie in 1st. A few years ago I did a wheelie school which used stock Bandit 1200s. They were teaching the technique for first gear power wheelies, not clutching up. If you got it just right, it would come up beautifully and it was possible to hold the balance point, but unless it was just right, the wheel wouldn't come up enough and more often than not the bike would simple rocket towards the horizon with both wheels firmly on the ground.

    I think it's fair to say that whilst the bike will wheelie (virtually any bike will, from 50cc step through to Harley) the key thing will be technique. I suspect that your only option is to clutch it up, because the characteristics or the bike simply don't lend it to monster power wheelies.

    I suspect, even if you make all the changes that you are suggesting, at best the front wheel will *just* leave to ground under power so you'll be nowhere near the balance point.

    If wheelie schools exist in the US, it might be worth investing there to practice clutching up on someone else's bike rather than chasing another 3 or 4 bhp in the hope that that'll magically turn the bike into a stunt beast.
     
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  14. I want to get back my clutch up ability with this larger bike and I’ll be practicing soon enough, but I’m chasing this power wheelie, I will slap a turbo and hooligan sprocket on this bad boy to spite my opposition if I have to. I know it’s possible. But my objective is to do it while cutting weight, improving overall performance and not just torque, and maintaining the same unassuming classic look. People do it with boring commuter cars in the US where they will swap a beefed up muscle car engine into a Toyota Camry just for the shock value.
    I have always liked the idea of having a retro bike with high performance components, electronics and internals, in a way you could never tell, like a bond bike of sorts. I put an m unit blue in the bike that basically makes my phone a remote controller and starter, and a Bluetooth obd2 reader hooked to the phone that will show things like voltage, intake temp, total engine load, and digital speedometer and analog tachometer, along with much more, like explaining the reason behind a check engine light and clearing it on the fly.
     
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  15. Lou160487

    Lou160487 Senior Member

    Jun 16, 2020
    305
    163
    Florida U.S.A
    This pretty much says it. The age of our bones makes all the difference in our view on wheelies.
     
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  16. I get so many people trying to stop me from wrenching on my bike. I like taking back a few horsepower and torque here and there. I feel like It’s my way to better understand and free up the potential in my bike, and feel what it can really do at its limit. I’m the kind of guy that knows the top speed of every bike I’m on in the first day, and before the days over I’m thinking of ways I can help it exercise more of its potential power on the rear wheel,
     
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  17. Get those wheelies in while your young, you heard it here /\ first folks.
     
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  18. To help y’all better understand how I roll, My first bike at 16 was a 1982 YAMAHA SECA 400 I bought it off Craigslist for 700 dollars and in two weeks I needed more than 94mph, so bought a book on how moonshine runners modified their vehicles to beat cop cars, and that lead me to nascar and cafe racing, and with a vague understanding as to why, I took an angle grinder to my exhaust tip and straight piped it, which had to have also housed the cat, modified my air box to take the equivalent of a free flow dirt bike filter, fitted larger diameter carb jets, and took off every non essential part with weight. Including the turn signals, mirrors, fenders, bar ends, passenger pegs, grab bars, and Dash. I never in three years spent a day below 90mph and rode it at redline always chasing more, I carried a hammer strapped to the back with pliers just to bend brake handlebars, foot pegs, and clutch levers for when I would lay it down about once a week, until one day the piston rod snapped in half and the mechanic told me it was because It was held at high rpms for too long and the repair would cost more than the bikes worth. I haven’t went down on the street in years now and ride something worth about 15 times as much, but that urge to feel my engine scream with flat out everything it’s got has never left. I know the street twin is choked up, I can feel it, maybe it’s a delay in the throttle by wire system or a softening in the power curve for god knows why, but I sense there is more get up and go in that crankcase then what is being widely experienced.
     
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  19. Tricky-Dicky

    Tricky-Dicky Crème de la Crème

    Dec 12, 2016
    2,441
    1,000
    Norfolk UK
    You have no need to defend your liking of wheelies especially by criticizing other forms of riding and gear, if you love wheelies then go for it as said some people can wheelie anything it's a learnt skill and not just down to having the right bike and the right tune, so practice and talk to those who are good at it to gain knowledge yes a power wheelie of a foot or so is easy the rest WILL result in plenty of physical and mechanical repair bills.

    I am afraid you won't get too much encouragement here especially from the larger proportion of older guys who have either been there and done it before or just not interested in this aspect we in Britain get far more riding appreciation from getting along a nice fast bendy road than a quick execution on one wheel....me I prefer to enjoy staying on the bike and not have intimate relations with the tarmac which at my age would be rather painful and result in too many broken bones.;)
     
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  20. Criticizing not wearing gear, or half helmets, that are blatantly and openly unsafe is not a defense tactic. My point needs no defense. Wheelies are an inherent part of using the upper portion of your motorcycles capibilities, it’s your bikes way of telling you you literally can’t go any faster. That’s pretty cool any way you look at it, and looking down on wheelies because your old is like looking down on walking because your in a wheelchair. I’m not interested in hearing from people who are done pushing their own limits. If you don’t wheelie, don’t comment, I can’t believe I had to spell that out. I’m not looking for condescending remarks by those more focused on their own fragility than the sensation that is at the core of riding, preforming under pressure. Just like any other casual pursuit on a roadway, if you want to cruise, get out of the way. I posted this to get technical advice from those who find a fall worth the ride, and are not so petrified of their own lost youth and inability they scoff at the idea of anything that reminds them of the younger generation.
    Watch your ass before you cast stones,
    I didn’t post this to take shit masked as advice from social security recipients.
     
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