1967/1969 Bonnie Rebuild Desert Sled Project - Any Advice

Discussion in 'Vintage Classics' started by Sundance, Sep 15, 2021.

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  1. darkman

    darkman Crème de la Crème

    Oct 26, 2015
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    #161 darkman, Jan 23, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2022
    You req R inlet and non R exhaust lifters. edit 70-3059R inlet and 70-8801 exhaust.
     
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  2. Sundance

    Sundance Well-Known Member

    Aug 2, 2021
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    OK, thanks for this. I had just put in a request to LF Harris as I couldn't find the info easily on-line. Do you happen to know of a good place to get the tappets? I've heard there are some supply problems. Thanks!
     
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  3. darkman

    darkman Crème de la Crème

    Oct 26, 2015
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    Most dealers in the US should be able to get you a set, i'm lucky that i can get some parts direct from L F H but they sell out as soon as they get a batch in as all the big buyers get it all first :-(
     
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  4. Sundance

    Sundance Well-Known Member

    Aug 2, 2021
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    OK, well thanks for the "warning" and I'll be looking.
     
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  5. speedrattle

    speedrattle Senior Member

    Feb 19, 2021
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    while you have all the parts out, go to a hardware store and buy some paint pens. you can paint the tappets, jugs, rod bolts, rods, whatever, with the paint pens so that you never have to remember which way they came out:

    [​IMG]


    my jugs are marked at four corners with four colours. th etappets are marked to the outside with the same colours. rod bolts match their corner and rods are marked individually. things that wear nto one position like tappets and cams can go back like they came out without you having to tape pr label or bag. this is important for me as i have no brain.

    i buy all my tappets used from eBay and then have em ground at megacycle
     
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  6. Sundance

    Sundance Well-Known Member

    Aug 2, 2021
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    Very cool idea! Thanks. Did it take you long to come up with the paint idea like this? Ok, so I haven't purchased my tappets yet. From what I can see new tappets are somewhere between $60 and $70 a piece, - what does it typically cost to have them reground? I also have a hard time getting in touch with Megacycle. Do you get in touch with them through raceenginesuppliers.com? Thanks.
     
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  7. speedrattle

    speedrattle Senior Member

    Feb 19, 2021
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    new tappets will be fine to go. but them from a reputable supplier so you dont get el cheapos from china. used ones on ebay go for around US$100 for a set right now.

    i cant remember what megacycle charges to reface them. i measured once and they had ground 0.010 off. ive never had any trouble getting them on the telephone. barb used to answer and was difficult for some people to talk to-- never me-- but last time i spoke with them her daughter had taken over the phone duties.

    the paint stuff is just a way to avoid making mistakes. i already had a lot of them because i was a beekeeper and used them to mark queens. youll end up with similar shortcuts.
     
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  8. Sundance

    Sundance Well-Known Member

    Aug 2, 2021
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    Some cam and bushing information. So I recently did a dry run with my cams and putting the engine cases together and found some binding in the timing side intake cam bushing. I had previously modified the exhaust side by shortening it on a whetstone. So the binding was the cam shoulder rubbing against the inside of the cam, so I should have also modified that bush.

    I’ve got new LF Harris cams, 70-3134 intake and 70-9989 exhaust, and these both measure about .997-.998 from shoulder of the timing side to shoulder where the cam gear gets set up against. I’ve also a new set of sintered bronze bushings, also from LF Harris via Classic British Spares. Both timing side bushes measure .9965-.9970 overall length. So I guess I was a bit surprised as I thought that these might be manufactured in order to be used as is. However there is no way for these to work without reducing the length on both in order to avoid them binding when the cases are assembled.

    Maybe this is no surprise to others?

    Thanks for any comments.
     
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  9. speedrattle

    speedrattle Senior Member

    Feb 19, 2021
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    #169 speedrattle, Jan 24, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2022
    0.997 and 0.998 is right in there on the camshafts. the last megacycle cams i bought were 0.996 and 1.002. at that time, my new timing side bushes were too long and so i had to stone them down to get endfloat. i ended up with timing side cam bushing lengths of 0.981 and 0.985, giving me 0.015 and 0.017 endfloat. endfloat specs are in the manual at 0.013 to 0.020.

    [​IMG]

    to my knowledge all the timing side bushes are now manufactured too long so as to ensure that they can fit anything. if youre going to be changing bushes, they expect you to hand-fit them too. not a problem except with the solid bronze ones, which were an answer to a question that nobody asked.

    i've measured brand new kibblewhite solid bushes at exactly 1.000, and some loose sintered bushes of mine have been 0.993, and other dimensions as well.

    the answer is just to measure the bushes and make sure they fit the cams you have.
     
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  10. Sundance

    Sundance Well-Known Member

    Aug 2, 2021
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    SR, great to hear this so I'm on the right track. By the way, do you only modify the bushes on the flange (inside) end, or do you ever need to remove material from the outside end of the bush?
     
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  11. speedrattle

    speedrattle Senior Member

    Feb 19, 2021
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    i havent done many of these, but ive never had any where the bush didnt stick out far enough to be clear of the right side of the timing chest crankcase casting. heres the last ones i did.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    first, you can see that the bush sticks out a bit from the timing chest casting. whether it sticks out or doesnt is not important. ive never had one so long that just taking metal off the left side of the timing side bush's top hat didnt solve the problem.

    second, you can see that the megacycle camshaft bearing surface for the bush (the part of the camshaft between the step on the cam and the right side of the inner thrust flange on the cam) is shorter than the bush. this IS important, because the cam will bind. this bush had to be shortened
     
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  12. Sundance

    Sundance Well-Known Member

    Aug 2, 2021
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    OK, I get this. I was initially concerned that the timing gear might bind on the outside of the bush, however as long as the shoulder of the cam extends beyond the case, and bush, with some clearance, all seems to be ok - assuming is is within the .013-.020. So it would seem that the only, or ideal, place to remove material is from the inside (flange) part of the bush. I suppose removing some material from the outside of the bush could also work, as long as the outside part of the bush was at least a bit proud of the case.
     
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  13. speedrattle

    speedrattle Senior Member

    Feb 19, 2021
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    #173 speedrattle, Jan 24, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2022
    yes.

    yes

    yes

    yes. here's what one looks like with the pinion rubbing the case:

    [​IMG]

    im thinking there was just a tiny bit not enough clearance. any tighter and the pinion could have messed up the case or sheared the key. or who knows.

    you will also find bodges from people who dont know what they are doing. this is a motor i took apart a while back. the intake timing side bush was too long and the pinion was locking up against the bush. so instead of shortening the bush, the DPO dropped a washer under the cam pinion securing nut so that the nut was tight without pushing the pinion all the way on'

    [​IMG]

    there was nothing holding the pinion to the camshaft except the little key.

    ^^^this is why you should never trust someone you dont know who sells you an assembled motor and says, "fully rebuilt . . ."
     
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  14. Sundance

    Sundance Well-Known Member

    Aug 2, 2021
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    Quite a fix!?! Crazy.

    Now that I been working on this awhile, and having to re-do bushes before reassembly (since I did a dry run), and getting your advice (many times) I think I finally have a clear picture of how and why these clearances work. Guess I'm a slow learner but glad I did the dry run assembly before finding this out much later. So there is a least a little bit of art mixed in with mechanics and science to rebuilding these old boys. Thanks again for your comments!
     
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  15. speedrattle

    speedrattle Senior Member

    Feb 19, 2021
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    art is correct. get someone to talk to you who is familiar with how the factory did things. the manufacture of these machines held to a mechanical philosophy that doesnt exist anymore. lots of hand fitting and selection of best-fit parts from a pile on the table, lots of skill as opposed to formal QC, and lots of personality.

    the first time i split the cases on my 1972 T120, i discovered that some long lost mechanic at the foundry had scratched his initials into the sand core before pouring the aluminum, and there they were forever, in reverse relief.

    ive told you just about all i know about cam bushes, so now you can share it with someone else as long as any of these old beaters are still around..
     
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  16. Sundance

    Sundance Well-Known Member

    Aug 2, 2021
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    Well, that is a cool story of your 72 T120. You probably know this, but a fellow recently told me that when I put my case together I should put a business card or some kind of identification in the front motor mount cavity before assembling the cases. That way when/if someone in the future takes it apart they will have a surprise and a bit of the engine's history. Hopefully no liability with that!
     
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  17. speedrattle

    speedrattle Senior Member

    Feb 19, 2021
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    thats where the initals on mine were scratched
     
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  18. Sundance

    Sundance Well-Known Member

    Aug 2, 2021
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    Arlington, VA
    As I’m waiting for some bearings and other engine parts before I start putting my motor back together - I’ve been taking apart my wheels and other bits. When taking apart the rear wheel today I found that the brake plate was bent. I’m wondering if anyone has experience with this sort of damage. Would it be possible for me to attempt to bend this back into shape? Thanks for comments!

    IMG_2507.jpeg

    IMG_2508.jpeg
     
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  19. speedrattle

    speedrattle Senior Member

    Feb 19, 2021
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  20. Sundance

    Sundance Well-Known Member

    Aug 2, 2021
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