Valve Checks

Love the Triumph but the service times at some point require the expensive valve check. The only thing that puzzles me is that car engines are very similar save for the higher revs on a bike. So if you own a car, how many times do you have a valve check?

 

Cheap as chips if you do it yourself. I bit the bullet and did it for the first time. All sorted for less than £100. As for cars no idea.

 

My main point to this question was why do bikes have to have valve check when cars do not?

 

Not sure which Triumph you have but the classics certainly are easy to work on with good access and as already said, cheap if you do it yourself. Bikes, like cars, vary greatly in their valve check schedule and ease of maintenance. I was quoted over £600 for a valve service on my ZZR a few years back but I've always maintained my own bikes although it did turn out to be one of the most difficult to work on. All the cars I've ever owned, with the exception of the XJ12, were screw & locknut tappet adjustment, much easier and quicker than shim-under-bucket, camshaft out jobs.

 

Cars do need valve checks, just like bikes. Also, some engines use hydraulic tappets which are self adjusting.
These are the varying schedules for mine....

Triumph 20k miles
ZZR 26k
Husaberg 50hrs (based on running time not mileage).
Car 12k

 

A lot of cars have hydraulic valves which take care of themselves. They are less stressed too, not revving so high generally tho I don't know if that helps.

 

Well I've had a few cars, never did the valves unless it was a rebuild.

 

Performance bikes typically produce more power and rev higher than your average car therefore require more frequent maintenance. For example my Speed Triple is 1050cc and produces 148HP whereas my car is 1500cc but only produces 110HP. The valve check interval is 12000 miles for the bike and 30000 miles for my car. I have recently done the check on my bike and no adjustment was necessary at 12000 miles but will probably need doing at the next 24000 miles service (from past experience). Interestingly my current car valve check is done audibly using a stethoscope and none of the cars I've owned have ever had any adjustment even though some had over 100000 miles on the clock (and serviced by a main dealer in accordance with the maintenance schedule).

 

Im sure that bikes have a larger rev range, but how many riders use it all the time, especially 140 horses.
I have a saurio tuning kit that can measure valve lap. I expect the car garages do that!

 

They certainly get revved

 

The performance of many modern machines is such that it's impossible use it all the time on the road and live but when you can it's addictive. When I go out on the ZZR (rarely these days since buying the Triumph!) I reckon maybe 5-10% of the time, if I'm lucky, I'll get to use the performance but when I do it reminds me why I could never sell it!
Not checking the valve clearances when required doesn't mean they don't need doing. It's a job usually put off or ignored, either because of expense or it being a right ball ache (like the ZZR).

 

This question has come up before, my car has exactly the same valve arrangement (shims) as my triumph and yet no scheduled maintenence is specified.
I don't think many car engines use hydraulic tappets anymore they mostly have gone down set for life route.
I also checked my own valve clearances, it's not difficult but can be a little tedious as so much stuff has to be removed before the cam cover comes off.
Mine were also within limits at 12000 miles and I spoke to the mechanic at Dorset triumph and he confirmed it is uncommon to have to do any shim changes on below 24000 mile engines.

 

It what puts me off bucket shim bikes.
Im use to moto guzzi, bmw for simple servicing.
I think that designers probably on the whole do not have any interest in putting ease of maintenance on their agenda, that's why some bikes have huge service charges.
Royal enfield seems to allow simple servicing and like some of you say, cars and vans have set for life valves.
If they put that on some motorcycles, we would have the cheap to own motorcycles back in our ownership.
I'll think I'll stick with my 1200 scrambler for now and hopefully it will serve me well.

 

There are good points about having shhim adjustment.....but I have forgotten it.

I grew up with manually adjusted valve gaps.....saying that all my later car have hyd tappets so no thing to adjust....prob a bit bilking for a smaller bike motor.

I have a 2020 T100.....never owned anything with an engine having shim valves.....but seeing I do all my own work cars and bike I bit the bullet.....did em way early at 3500mls.

I dont trust dealers working on my bike.

As I have a tapping noise on cold starts....goes after a few mins so seeing triumph could not give me an answer to my tapping....OR JUST DID NOT WANT TO I HAVE TO SEARCH OR THE REASON MYSELF.

Very annoying.

Anyway....biggest prob doing the valve is getting the dam rocker cover off....and the stuff that has to be removed to do it....its tight.

Just as well I checked.....inlets were fine well within spec but 2 of the 4 exhaust valve were a bit over max gap....the other 2 one was on the limit....1 was a fraction under.

I reset to the mid way setting between max and min.

Did it cure my cold start rattle....did it buggery.

May have found the cause under the rocker cover....the rocker arms if pushed back and forth...on contacting the head its exactly the same noise.

Not 100% but seeing the head heats up quickly that would explain why the rattle/tapping goes as the motor warms....I do feel Triumph fobbed me off.

I have spoken to quite a few owners around the world with the same prob.

Nick in the UK.

 

One bike I own with hydraulic tappets is a royal enfield 500 c5 pegasus.
Best bike for many reasons.

Main reason for the start of this thread was why do we need valve check plus the amount of money we have to part with. Some prices are like car service prices.

On the up side I suppose is to save up for servicing, you can ride a loaner for the day, and not get your hands dirty!

I'm on the fence with that one but I digress.

 

My current car (F20 BMW) and my previous 7 cars all had hydraulic "maintenance-free" valves. The only exception was a Civic Type-R with locknut and screw thread jobs. None ever needed adjustment during my ownership.
I've checked all my bikes at the recommended mileage and none have ever needed adjustment either. I'm almost disappointed as although it's a labour-intensive job . . . I'm looking forward to doing it in a perverse sort of way!!
Given my experience with dealers and the appalling quality of workmanship and attention to detail which is almost universally displayed by all . . . . . no way on earth would I let the dealers do this job for me - not a chance!!

 

Sorry...I thought I sort of did follow that.....yes I did go off subject a bit....again sorry....thought it may have been of interest.

 

How long is "life" exactly? Does it mean to the end of the warranty period? The only tappets "set for life" are hydraulic which self adjust. The rest, wether screw & locknut or shim type require periodic check/adjustment due to valve train/seat wear. Under bucket shims were designed and adopted to avoid high revving engines spitting out bucket top shims with the damage that causes. The Triumph classic twins, being external shims are easy to do. The under bucket type, as used on many high power, sports bike engines, are way more hassle. At best, incorrect valve clearences can mean tappet noise and poor running. At worst it's accelerated valve train wear and seat damage. When I enquired about the valve check service on the ZZR a few years back they said they could do it in a day, ride in, ride out srvice. They need to be checked with a stone cold engine so I don't see how they could do it in a day as it takes several hours for the engine to cool sufficiently. I did them over 3 days, strip the bike for access, check the gaps, remove and note the shim sizes, order new shims, swap those necessary (cams out), recheck gaps and reassemble. Even with shims to hand, to complete in one day after waiting for the engine to cool? I don't see how.

 

Bikes require more regular checkups for two primary reasons.
First , they rev harder than most regular sedan's, sports cars and those unobtainiums like Ferrari, Lamborghini etc are exceptions.
Second , the much smaller size and capacity of individual cylinders !! There's not much tolerance/ clearance between the valve head and piston top in a motorcycle engine....
Be just a few thousandths too tight , a bit of excess gudgeon pin play and head gasket crush a little too tight (yes head gaskets crush down variably) and then cam chain tensioner isn't always as tight as it's supposed to be and bang !! Valves meet pistons!!!

 

Agree,but l think the primary reason is that the valve clearances usually get smaller as the valve wears into the seat,more commonly on the inlets.































































































































If this happens and the valve fails to fully close then both

Agree,but I think the main reason the check needs to be done is because the clearances usually get smaller over time,this is usually more common in the inlets, if the clearance is severely reduced then the valve will fail to fully close resulting in damage to both valve and seat.

This is why back in the day they added tetraethyl lead in petrol which reduced valve seat wear, nowadays they use specially hardened valves and seats but this does not eliminate wear completely.