Weedy Battery On This Bike..

Discussion in 'Bonneville' started by 45Brit2017, Jan 25, 2021.

  1. 45Brit2017

    45Brit2017 Well-Known Member

    May 30, 2017
    146
    93
    UK
    I’ve just been in the shed, and what with doing no miles in the present lunatic situation, and the freezing weather lately the battery is flat AGAIN. I’m getting a bit fed up with this, to tell the truth. The 20 Ah, 390 CCA one on the Sportster just shrugs it off, starts without problems.

    I bought some Hagon rear units on eBay a while ago, meant for the Triumph - but the orange monster got them in the end. The Triumph was intended to replace the old brute, but it’s stil here... what is it about Triumph, that they fit these pathetic batteries?
     
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  2. Bonne Phil

    Bonne Phil Member

    Dec 21, 2018
    66
    18
    Romford, East London

    Optimate 4 is a great bit of kit for looking after the battery over the closed season, which is currently running for the whole bloody year. I can't remember that last time a battery failed on me. I've been using Optimate 3 and now 4's for years. As says about, it checks the condition of the battery every now and ten and will only charges as and when required.
     
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  3. beerkat

    beerkat Senior Member

    Aug 14, 2019
    862
    243
    Cheshire UK
    Like they said, you need an Optimate (or similar). I've got 3, one for each bike, and they're connected when the bikes are at home in the garage. Never had a problem.
     
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  4. Alatamoc

    Alatamoc Senior Member

    Mar 29, 2019
    493
    113
    Uk
    Hmmm...my own experience with many harleys is that they tend to have a maximum duration of about 3 weeks without use before they fail to start the bike. Maybe I've just been unlucky.
    I use a double optimate for both Triumphs which live outside. Whilst the bikes never fail to start I do wonder if one day I'll get a nasty surprise parking overnight in winter away from home.
    But so far so good with the optimate.
     
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  5. Pegscraper

    Pegscraper Elite Member

    Jun 12, 2020
    3,277
    800
    Yorkshire
    Do you have any current draw from an alarm or immobiliser etc? Assuming no current draw, LA batteries will typically self discharge around 4-6% per month depending on temperature, plus, the rated capacity will drop by about 1% for every deg below 20deg C so, if your bike isn't in regular use and is stored outside or in an unheated shed or garage you're better off removing the battery or connecting a maintenance charger if possible On battery charging I'm not a fan of leaving any charger permanently connected. I use a Ctek charger on a timer which comes on for around 90mins every day. Fortunately the bikes are in a garage attached to the house, unheated but the CH boiler is in there so while nowhere near as warm as the house it's frost free.
     
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  6. beerkat

    beerkat Senior Member

    Aug 14, 2019
    862
    243
    Cheshire UK
    There's no harm in leaving the battery connected to an Optimate for as long as you like, weeks if necessary. As Bonne Phil says, it tests the condition of the battery at regular intervals and only charges it if it needs it, which it will do if left on an unused bike during the winter. It isn't charging constantly. It won't harm the battery. If it did then Optimate (or whoever makes them) would lose a ton of business.
     
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  7. 45Brit2017

    45Brit2017 Well-Known Member

    May 30, 2017
    146
    93
    UK
    #7 45Brit2017, Jan 27, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
    Now you mention it, there is a large, green-and-White Datatool sticker on the right side of the steering neck. I’ve never worried too much about that side of things, it’s pretty much the only modern bike I’ve owned apart from the Honda Shadow VTS which immediately preceded it, and don’t understand such gadgets. The T100 certainly has various expensive accessories (centre stand, for one) fitted by the PO so it wouldn’t much surprise me if it had an accessory immobiliser.

    I’ve never really worried about it, with the Sportster. They are rarely stolen, because they are fairly common and not particularly valuable (this was not always so! My old ironhead XLCH was notorious locally in the early 1980s for being almost impossible to start, which was quite a good deterrent - it was easier to steal a Commando!) I could start the beast, but it was definitely a learned skill... quite unlike any other bike, and if you got it wrong you might as well leave it to sulk for a while. Also, never go anywhere without a plug spanner!
     
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  8. 45Brit2017

    45Brit2017 Well-Known Member

    May 30, 2017
    146
    93
    UK
    The battery on the present Evo Sportster is a bit of an afterthought, really, despite its huge size. The bike will run quite happily without it, running the electronic ignition off the voltage regulator (thought to be a good idea by some PO - it gives no trouble so I’ve left it like that). Older Harley electrical systems do tend to more a matter of opinion, than fact.

    If the battery is flat, the positive terminal is accessible (this is why older Evo Sportsters often lack the left-side battery cover) - just connect the jump lead to the +ve terminal, the other lead to the cylinder fins and off you go! Once running, the car-sized alternator will quickly charge the battery again.
     
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  9. Trevor Austin

    Trevor Austin Well-Known Member

    Aug 29, 2020
    162
    83
    Northumberland
    I have an Optimate 4 battery charger/optimiser. I bought it because modern bikes with their fancy doodads consume a little power all the time so if you are not riding regularly your battery will eventually end up flat. They do not like being left flat for extended periods of time. Most of the time the charger appears to do bugger all but whenever I have gone to start the bike it zaps straight into life without hesitation. Given the price of a replacement battery and the associated shagnasty I reckon the £50 I spent on it was worth it.
     
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  10. Pegscraper

    Pegscraper Elite Member

    Jun 12, 2020
    3,277
    800
    Yorkshire
    I use the Ctek periodically on the SUV even though it gets used maybe 2-4 times PW but they're mainly short journeys and the intake heater pulls almost 50A for around 30-60 secs after cold startup which gradually reduces battery charge even though it has 2 x 95ah HD batteries. The alarm pulls around 35ma when parked up so isn't really a problem.
     
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  11. Gothmog

    Gothmog New Member

    Jan 24, 2021
    24
    3
    Great Harwood
    I have a few bike and ALL of the newer bikes need to be charged at most once a month.

    I have put a meter on them and all draw some current even with "everything" off. I think prob immobilizers, alarms etc etc take their toll

    I use a CTEK XS 0.8 and leave it connected moving round, once a week.
    You do need power though. For my lockup which has no power I use a charger from a radio control model (used to charge model car batteries) most charge lead acids as well and run off 12 V. Small car battery and a few hours keeps them topped up.

    OR as I have done on some just disconnect the battery when not used for a while :)
     
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  12. Iceman

    Iceman Crème de la Crème

    Apr 19, 2020
    2,337
    1,000
    Lancashire
    I would agree with what many others say, either invest in an Optimate or consider buying a Shido Lithium battery, I realise they are not cheap (£74 from Sportsbikeshop), from experience I would avoid the Motobatt brand, batteries are complex, more than people realise. Personally I fit quality batteries, nothing worse than being in the "back of beyond" and you get the CLICK - CLICK - CLICK when you want to go back home.
     
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  13. 45Brit2017

    45Brit2017 Well-Known Member

    May 30, 2017
    146
    93
    UK
    I’ve now fitted a charging lead, so I can charge it periodically without the nuisance value of taking the seat on and off.
     
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  14. Gothmog

    Gothmog New Member

    Jan 24, 2021
    24
    3
    Great Harwood
    Be a little cautious of the "indicator" charge cables such as CTEK Indicator. U have found they draw about 1.5mA on average so while nice to see when a battery is low, on small batteries actually flatten the battery faster the natural self discharge or the bike.
    I now use a cut down charger extension with a multimeter on it.

    Plug it in, 12.8V 100% charged, 11.8V totally flat. (nominal after leaving to settle for a few hours after being charged). I usually put mine back on charge when it hits about 12.4 volts, just above 50% discharged.
     
  15. johne

    johne Standing on the shoulders of dwarves.

    Jan 16, 2020
    1,807
    943
    Where the Wolds meet the sea
    I've gone the Lithium battery route on my Tuono and will probably do the same when the present battery on the Thruxton gives up the ghost, but be aware with Lithium batteries, you need a battery charger/tender that is suitable for use with lithium types. An ordinary lead acid trickle charger will bugger up your new expensive lithium battery.
     
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  16. Gothmog

    Gothmog New Member

    Jan 24, 2021
    24
    3
    Great Harwood
    In my opinion the main advantage of lithium is lightness, now of you have a super lightweight bike the extra 5kg may make a difference but on most bikes it's not worth the effort.
    The control required with multicell lithium cost and complexity negatives for me far outweigh advantages at the moment.
    I'll be sticking with a good quality AGM call for the future on most standard bikes.
     
  17. 45Brit2017

    45Brit2017 Well-Known Member

    May 30, 2017
    146
    93
    UK
    No, it’s just a lead with a plug. Press the starter occasionally, if it seems a bit reluctant, give it a boost.

    Must say, I’m not tremendously impressed with all this modern electrickery. The old Sportster starts well enough in just about any weather, the 1990s electronic ignition seems quite sufficient. You just have to let it warm up a little before riding off, then push the choke in after a couple of miles. The lead acid battery works fine until it doesn’t, then change it. Long ago, I fitted the aftermarket “long” leads to make this easier.
     
  18. Cupoftea

    Cupoftea Noble Member

    Dec 16, 2018
    567
    343
    NEW FOREST
    My Road King has an Odissey fitted, left 4 months and still fires up. Great batteries these.
    My other bikes have the Lithium Ion batteries, even then they can be a struggle to start. The Odissey seems to be the best so far.
    The Bonny has the standard battery which so far have no issues with.
     
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  19. Gothmog

    Gothmog New Member

    Jan 24, 2021
    24
    3
    Great Harwood
    Hi folks

    All batteries suffer from self discharge over time, some worse that others.
    Quality of battery is a factor by chemistry is by far the biggest.

    Wet cell, AGM, Gel, Lithium all are different but from experience there are two major factors which over ride the self discharge which on most cell will be 6 months plus from charged down to 50% ( I find below 50% that's when it may struggle to start a bike and I put mine back on charge)

    1) Age of battery, as batteries age they develop sulphides, these sort of short out the plates causing internal current paths and significantly increase self discharge.

    2) Draw of current from the bike, old bikes, ignition key off, bike was off. No so for many modern bikes with active keys, immobilizers, clocks etc.

    So in short a good battery, replace when you have to "keep charging" their not that expensive now and if you going to leave for a long time, just disconnect the battery.
     
  20. Photog_Steve

    Photog_Steve Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2021
    85
    68
    Massachusetts
    I keep a very inexpensive battery tender on my sports car all winter. When Spring arrives, it never fails to start right up. Same battery since 2014.
     
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