Speed Twin 1200 Valve Clearance Check

Discussion in 'Technical Help' started by Switters, Jan 2, 2024.

  1. Switters

    Switters New Member

    Aug 5, 2023
    10
    3
    Foix, Pyrenees, France
    My 2019 Speed Twin 1200 with only 12000kms has suddenly started making a worrying engine noise. I've posted a video here:

    So I checked valve clearances today. I thought I'd post some info of the procedure:

    1. Disconnect battery, Remove seat.
    2. Remove tank. Only difficulty is the clip that holds the fuel line. Slide the one part forward and then push the 2 tabs in to enable you to lift the connection off. It's tricky. I used pliers and screwdriver to push these tabs in whilst carefully levering upwards. Remember it's all plastic so take care. it's got a one way valve so only a tiny amount of fuel will come out.
    3. Remove everything that is above the camshaft cover - the electrical parts that are attached to the upper frame, the coolant filler cap holder etc. You need a torx 30 and there's about 7 bolts . There's one screw bolt that points vertically up and is difficult to access. Removal enables some electrical components to remain on the RHS and the rest of the plastic, wires and spark plug caps exit on LHS. Remove coolant overflow thin hose. Coolant cap pushes up and forwards into the frame. You now have enough space to remove the camshaft cover.
    4. Undo camshaft cover bolts x4
    5. Use rubber mallet to free up cam shaft cover and remove to LHS. Take your time. NEVER lever up with screwdriver. RHS.jpg LHS.jpg

    6. Remove spark plugs
    7. Bike in 6th gear, rotate wheel and watch the cams and valves at work! It's brilliant!
    8. Starting on RHS rotate the engine a few times to see what is happening to the cam lobes and valves. At one point the 2 lobes settle pointing upwards. Continue rotating until the camshaft lobes are positioned pointing directly away from the roller on the rocker shaft. ie downwards. Here you can see the horizontal alignment marks on the end of the cam and the casing. Now measure the 4 valve clearances for the right cylinder.
    CAM.jpg

    I also noticed at this point a circular mark visible on the uppermost part of the interior cam lobe:
    ABOVE.jpg

    8. Rotate the engine again using the rear wheel to do exactly the same on the left cylinder. The marking on the end of the camshaft is different but use the same principle of cam lobes pointing away from the roller and look for the circular mark on the interior cam lobe.

    Triumph specs:
    Intake 0.05mm - 0.13mm
    Exhaust 0.12mm - 0.22mm

    I hope this helps. It's my first check on a Triumph. I've previously had Ducatis and BMW boxers over 20 years. Any comments welcome...
    My Speed Twin engine had started making worrying noise so I was concerned. I found my exhausts were both 0.17mm on LHS and 0.13mm and 0.14mm on RHS. But ALL intakes were too tight. One at 0.04mm and the other 3 at less than 0.04mm. I couldn't even get the feeler gauge in! WTF!!! The bike has only done 12,000kms and Triumph schedule first valve check at 32,000kms!
     
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  2. Eldon

    Eldon Elite Member

    Nov 14, 2018
    6,319
    800
    North Yorkshire
    It's always awkward on a video than real life but the noise sounded more camchain tensioner issue to me than valve clearances. It might be worth stripping that out whilst you are there and giving it a once over?

    On your bullet point 2, I used to mess about/struggle with the petrol clips but then bought some 90 degree clip pliers. It really does make the whole thing easier and more controlled.
     
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  3. Pegscraper

    Pegscraper Elite Member

    Jun 12, 2020
    3,283
    800
    Yorkshire
    I had a noise similar to that but not quite as loud appear on my Street Scrambler. As you will know, the chain tensioner is a hydraulic/spring hybrid. I took the tensioner out and couldn't see anything amiss, put it all back together and the noise was gone. It's an easy item to check while you have the lid off.

    I bought one of these for the fuel pipe connector, easy!
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266464398259?hash=item3e0a840bb3:g:9zAAAOSwwoljZp8g&amdata=enc:AQAIAAAAwDoBV6AAhfzWAvYDxBE/hyCC+f29BR7J5qRWIDUJiV6akwmzLg9a78e9t03FdVQecIFUCRJ0WbjNVgvDNK0mgdQdZvKNTPCQSRx9aJcj3kdZfA4XyeD2gZVP52oAUKeXqQTNc1DH2nD5gQdVJ4PS8II1kWXAUJUfAwFGfpS+HBC47/J3yvyni0f6kWl/Wyy342ilKi8RDmCWLyEBm7DdMhVQXyJbt8UKiWx87vv74nQAqI63gh+HUPglquX8YkZFkA==|tkp:BlBMUObbjeuaYw

    Compared to some sports bikes, these are a breeze to work on.:grinning:
     
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  4. Switters

    Switters New Member

    Aug 5, 2023
    10
    3
    Foix, Pyrenees, France
    Thanks. Great advice on the fuel pipe connector pliers! I never knew they existed.. I'll get some in, it'll certainly make the job easier and less risk of breaking anything.

    With regard to the cam chain tensioner, is there anything to be aware of in the removal / installation procedure? I'm waiting on delivery of replacement shims so the bike is all ready to work on in my garage!
     
  5. Eldon

    Eldon Elite Member

    Nov 14, 2018
    6,319
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    North Yorkshire
    #5 Eldon, Jan 5, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2024
    The tensioner needs to come out, strip, inspect, reset and refit.

    DONT FORCE THE PLUNGER BACK IN.....
    With a vice etc as you'll break it.

    Theres probably a youtube vid but its quite easy and straightforward once you've done one, but fiddly.

    On the petrol clips; I once bust one and Triumph wanted £80 for the bit of pipe with a clip on it, they don't sell the clips separate so be warned.

    The clips are nothing special really and I bought x3 for £12, problem solved.

    I have a pair of these pliers below, as well as the ones @Pegscraper listed, as with both the orientation of the pipe fitting can be tackled easily whether the clips are north/south or east/west

    Screenshot_20240105_093108_eBay.jpg
     
  6. TRIPLE X

    TRIPLE X Senior Member

    Sep 1, 2021
    357
    113
    Downham Market, Norfolk
    #6 TRIPLE X, Jan 5, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2024
    Scan_0002.jpg I thought I was the only one struggling to disconnect the fuel pipe from the tank so made a simple tool that works a treat. Those pliers look the business though.
     

    Attached Files:

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  7. Baza

    Baza Elite Member

    Jul 25, 2020
    3,443
    750
    Amazing Grace
    I understand your concern, especially regarding the inlet clearances and how little “mileage” the bike’s done since new. But as long as there was some clearance on the inlets you’ve caught it in time. For comparison the old preunit motors with cams that didn’t have silencing ramps ran 2 thou inlet and 4 thou exhaust.
    I’ve never worked on a Hinkley lump but looking at the photos it’s a dodle compared with the Desmodromic valve gear on my Ducati.
     
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  8. RickM46

    RickM46 Active Member

    Oct 12, 2023
    57
    28
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    Switters: have your valve adjustments solved the problem??
     
  9. Switters

    Switters New Member

    Aug 5, 2023
    10
    3
    Foix, Pyrenees, France
    Just waiting for delivery of new shims. I'll keep you posted
     
  10. Switters

    Switters New Member

    Aug 5, 2023
    10
    3
    Foix, Pyrenees, France
    Yes, the Triumph is easy enough to work on. I've had 5 Ducati 2Vs so am well acquainted with the desmo system! But i never had any issues with the Ducatis, certainly nothing like having all 4 inlet clearances too tight like on my Speed Twin!!!
     
  11. Baza

    Baza Elite Member

    Jul 25, 2020
    3,443
    750
    Amazing Grace
    No, shows how good the PDI was. When I did the Ducati for the first time I could have left them for another year at least considering how little mileage I do compared to others. But having taken the tank, seat, airbox, and rear shock off already I just got on with it.
     
  12. Pegscraper

    Pegscraper Elite Member

    Jun 12, 2020
    3,283
    800
    Yorkshire
    I wouldn't really call adjusting valve clearances "an issue". With the exception of hydraulic setups, it"s just part of routine maintenance. I had a FZR1000 in 1991 with valve check intervals set at 28k miles but when I checked them at around 18k, there were at least 3 where the gap had closed almost completely, well ot of spec. The idle had got quite lumpy and after checking everything else decided to check valve clearances. Thankfully no damage was done and normality restored after re-shimming but it wasn"t easy to work on, surpassed in awkwardness only by my current ZZR. Loads of stuff to remove before you even get access to the valve cover, then you need hands like a baby to get in there with the guages.
    Then it's cams out, buckets off and shim change. Oh joy.
    The Triumph twin is a bicycle by comparison.
     
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  13. Eldon

    Eldon Elite Member

    Nov 14, 2018
    6,319
    800
    North Yorkshire
    A friend had a Yamaha FZ750 which I took to the IOM. It would start from cold no issue but no chance when hot. Checked valve clearances, x5 per cylinder, x20 valve motor :eek: and they'd closed up enough for hot expansion to affect compression on cranking.
     
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  14. Baza

    Baza Elite Member

    Jul 25, 2020
    3,443
    750
    Amazing Grace
    By “issue” do you mean with regard to the complexity of the operation?
     
  15. Pegscraper

    Pegscraper Elite Member

    Jun 12, 2020
    3,283
    800
    Yorkshire
    Not the complexity, more the fact that they needed adjusting in the first place. In post 10 the OP referred to the tight clearances on 4 valves being an issue. Valve clearances change, that's why they're adjustable and re shimming them is just routine and no more an issue than changing plugs or balancing carbs/throttle bodies IMO.
    I bought a 1198SP in 2011 but got rid of it long before the first service was due so never got to work on the Desmo valve gear.
     
  16. Baza

    Baza Elite Member

    Jul 25, 2020
    3,443
    750
    Amazing Grace
    Ah, I understand, the Desmo gear is bloody fiddly, as well as having a normal cup shim that sits on the head of the valve for opening the closing shim slides down the valve stem and is held in position by two semicircular wire collets that locate in a groove in the valve stem. Not only are they small, the valve stem is only 7mm dia, but there is a gaping oil return gallery beneath just waiting for you to drop one of these blighters down to the sump.
     
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  17. Pegscraper

    Pegscraper Elite Member

    Jun 12, 2020
    3,283
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    Yorkshire

    .....the stuff of nightmares!!:joy:
     
  18. Switters

    Switters New Member

    Aug 5, 2023
    10
    3
    Foix, Pyrenees, France
    So here is the update:
    Valve clearances adjusted and cam chain tensioner removed, checked and reinstalled. But the engine was still noisy.
    So I phoned the Triumph dealer and they said they have known these bikes to be noisy if they have been sitting a while. I hadn't ridden my bike for 3 weeks when I first noticed this worrying noise but they said to rev it hard to get the oil pressure up and the noise will stop. I was a bit reluctant but I warmed the bike at idle and gave it some good revs. Sure enough it worked! Engine sound back to normal!!
    So good thing to bear in mind if your bike has not been started for a while. What a relief....

    Interestingly the throttle response seems softer / nicer now that the valves are in spec. I'm looking forward to going for a ride but there's snow here...
     
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  19. Pegscraper

    Pegscraper Elite Member

    Jun 12, 2020
    3,283
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    That suggests to me that the chain tensioner has now moved out one click and applied a bit more tension on the chain. My working knowledge of the tensioner is that it is spring assisted but uses oil pressure primarily with a ratchet type setup to hold tension when the engine isn't running. Whatever, it's sorted so good news!:grinning:
     
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  20. RickM46

    RickM46 Active Member

    Oct 12, 2023
    57
    28
    US
    #20 RickM46, Jan 11, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2024
    Pegscraper:
    Funny you should mention that bit on the cam chain tensioner; since I've put a few more miles on the bike (only total of 174, winter here, garage temp ~40F), the top end has gotten quiet; only hear the whir of the cam chain I think.

    I mentioned in a previous post that when the engine was new, I thought the top end had a noisy clatter to it. Maybe the engine has run in (Titanic line) or the tensioner is working better or the oil is thicker due to the cold.

    In addition, the throttle response seems a bit smoother along with clutch engagement in Road mode.
     
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