Speed Triple Rs 4th Gear Problems

I would suggest you read this WHOLE thread. I have just done so as I my bike is showing the symptoms that are described in all the comments above by other RS owners.When you have read all the previous comments you will have a better idea of what is causing your problems and what you can do to get your bike sorted out.

 

Well. I did read the whole thread, but there are some nuances in symptoms that caused me to think there some similarities and also some differences. That said, I traded the bike for a ‘22 Speed triple RR. I could not bother with a bike no-one (at the shop) knew what to with. Also a new gearbox install didn’t seem to be very attractive. Also, instead of telling me to read the whole thread, it would be appreciated to give advice on the actual subject

 

I opted for free TPMS on my Speed RS rather than a QS and I think the decision was vindicated.
I have owned a 2008 Tiger 1050 from new and knew the gearbox foibles and how hitting a false neutral could and invariably would result in Armageddon from the gearbox internals.
As I always use the clutch, these seismic events only ever have the inertia of the gearbox internals behind them but rarely occur because I have always been slow, deliberate and forceful with my gear changes but. . .
With a QS change, the hammer blow has the engine torque behind it and is almost certainly going to quickly prove injurious if not fatal for the gearbox.
No way would I use a QS on the Triumph. It’s made me nervous to the extent that when using it on the S1000RR I always feather the throttle on up-changes so that if I do hit a falsey, the hammer blow will be more “toffee hammer” than “vengeance of Thor” . . . hasn’t happened yet but I’m sure it will - other S1K owners have had it but the Triumph Massey Ferguson box is clearly more prone to it.
Use the clutch peeps before you get a huge bill - yeh yeh . . “Mine doesn’t do it” “mine works perfectly” but it’s “when” not “if” . . . .
Your bike will survive hundreds of “ifs” but sadly, it can take only a single “when”

 

A little harsh to compare the Triumph gearbox to a Massey Ferguson presumably from one their tractors? Dunno if they are still going, but if they are, their modern gearboxes are probably very highly engineered and can with stand a huge amount of torque and power given what a tractor has to do in the field. Modern tractors probably have a lot more tech in them than motorbikes.

I have a 2008 Sprint 1050 ST that I've had since 2014 and I wouldn't say the gearbox is agricultural. It does occasionally suffer from false neutrals or difficulty getting into neutral but I put that down to either me or oil. The gearbox seems very sensitive to what oil is put in the engine. Castrol 4T Edge fully synthetic which is what I think Triumph were recommending made it sound like a bag of spanners and lots of false neutrals, difficulty getting it into neutral. However with Motul semi synthetic 5000 series oil this is much much reduced and the gearbox is a lot quieter. Normally changes can be quite slick and satisfying, but occasionally the gearbox seems to suffer a meltdown if I am not concentrating 110% ie a missed gear or false neutral at which point I instantly pull in the clutch or back off on the throttle which depending on where I am on a road, the weather and traffic conditions could be quite inconvenient, hazardous even.

Maybe if Triumph are continuing to spec Castrol oils in their gearboxes this might also be a contributing factor albeit a more difficult one to prove? I don't know what oil has been put in my Speed Triple RS at the service before it was delivered to me. It looks cleanish so might have been changed although my bike had covered just over 1100 miles when I got it so potentially could still be the oil from the 600 miles service if the dealer couldn't be bothered to change it as they just wanted to cut costs on what it spent on my bike before delivering it to me which wouldn't surprise me. Also as part of the PDI they should have checked that all recalls had been done. I shall check the gear selector arm later to see if the later modified one, as per the recall has been fitted. If not I want my £220 back they charged me for the PDI as this is bad. It should have been changed given it is a safety issue. Bunch of crooks. But I shall be emailing them and Triumph to see what they can do to help me and my bike's gearbox from imminent self destruction as I have had a few false neutrals and now it is jumping in and out of 4th gear when rolling on under moderate acceleration from about 35mph. It is quite scary especially if trying to over take with on coming traffic approaching where passing would not be an issue if the bike was functioning as it should.

 

I can't hear my gearbox when on the move or indeed, any gearbox come to that. Loads of peeps suggest certain oils are better, slicker, quieter etc etc etc but in reality, I suspect it is mostly wishful thinking and there's no difference whatsoever, just as long as the correct grade is used.
If your bike is already jumping in and out of 4th gear, I suspect the damage is already done and you're looking at a new gearbox.
Re the shift arm - all Triumph did was cut a section out of the the OEM part so that the linkage and arm didn't clash on up changes. For them to even think for one moment this was the source of the original problem is laughable.
Frankly, all you need to do is get down on your hands and knees and operate the gear lever through the extremes of its travel - if it clashes with the linkage arm then you will either need the new part or simply alter slightly the "rest" position of the gear lever. I test rode an RS with the original lever and it didn't clash . . . it simply isn't the problem anyway!!!

 

It seems that the modified arm is only necessary if the quickshifter is fitted and the new arm is now included when you purchase the quickshifter as an extra. I got the recall but my dealer said it was not necessary as I do not have a quickshifter and would not do it.

 

Sorry I disagree with many aspects of what you have written. Firstly just because you can't hear your own bike's gearbox or indeed any other bikes' gearboxes doesn't mean that what I have written is "wishful thinking" or wrong. This has been my experience. In any case I am half deaf as well, but I I can still hear and tell when a gearbox performs better. I have been riding bikes for 25-30 years. I am not stupid!

So you can diagnose the state of my bike's gearbox from your keyboard in Lincolnshire? So I am looking at a new gearbox ............. really? Maybe you have X-ray vision. Can you X-ray the gearbox internals with your super human powers? LoL.

Re the shift arm assembly. It was a recall issued in Dec 2019 by Triumph and DVSA, Ref: RCOMP/2019/010 on the grounds of safety. Given my bike was supposedly serviced and "prepared prior to delivery to me" this should have been addressed by the Triumph dealer who sold me the bike earlier this year, unseen, and who should have checked whether there were any outstanding recalls yet to be addressed with my bike before he let it go out to me. They did not do this. They should have done this irrespective if whether it was the source of the fault or not. According to people's accounts and thoughts here, it could be one of several possible contributory causes if you read the whole of this thread. I should NOT have to get down on my hands and knees to assess it's movement from one extreme to another. I should have the documentation to say the necessary recall issues have been addressed. I don't. Obviously I am going to have to have a look at my bike to see if it is the newer shift arm, but that's as far as I go. Yes I will see if there are any marks on it if it is still the original one in place.

Yes I have read the whole of this thread. I seem to recall you joining about half way through. I can't remember but I don't think you were present at the start, but neither was I, but then I am not being ever so slightly obnoxious or obtuse.

I shall sort my bike out one way or another. This thread has had a number of very helpful people contributing to it with their experiences in dealing with this issue. Have a nice day.

 

This is helpful thanks for this.
When you said you got the recall, how did this happen? Did the dealer or Triumph themselves contact you?

 

It came direct from Triumph.

 

I'm not trying to be obnoxious or dismissive . . . just realistic.
There have been a number of threads over the years covering this very issue and indeed, if you read through them, you will see that I wrote to Triumph about this very problem perhaps three years ago.
I wasn't suggesting that you should do anything to your bike and of course, the pdi should be carried out fully and professionally. My comments re the cause of gearbox damage when using the QS was based on numerous discussions on this forum on this very issue and dating back 3-4 years.
Re the gear arm - of course you want the modified part but all I am saying is that this isn't the root cause of the problem and so I was suggesting that if it isn't fitted and you have the replacement part installed, don't expect any issues to miraculously disappear - there is far more to it than that but again, read the various forum posts discussing this issue.
If you don't have the correct part fitted and as a precursor to doing so, there is no harm in inspecting it yourself to see if there is a clash - it takes 30 seconds and if there isn't, you will know in advance that any issues you may have experienced are not caused by the OEM part . . . just simple expediency.
Triumph are the people who dreamed up this remedy and my criticism in this respect was reserved entirely for the factory for fobbing us off with this so-called remedy.
If you have hit a number of false neutrals and your bike is now jumping out of 4th gear then it would seem highly likely that your gearbox is damaged . . . if it wasn't, it wouldn't be jumping out of gear but of course- never say never . . . . . it is always possible that this behaviour is coincidental and hasn't been caused by hitting the false neutrals but this is a known trait as is, momentary loss of drive when in 4th gear. If the box has been damaged and is under warranty, expect a new gearbox, indeed, go one more than that . . . demand one!!!!!!!
re the type of oil and distinguishing one brand from another based on gearbox noise, we'll just have to respectfully differ on that one and I wouldn't lose too much sleep over what type you use, just so long as you use the correct grade which is designed for motorcycles - I use the recommended Castrol but have also used Silkolene and Motul . . . didn't make any difference on my bike to be fair

 

As per @Alan Gilbert , once you have heard this/had it, it's f"%king awful.
Sure, not everyone has had it but i'm deliberately more "positive" on the qs changes now. Not had it since being "positive" with changes (1.5 years since last massive clunk).
It's really not great.
I did have a s/w update on the bike which "seemed" to put a "hesitation?" between those gear changes using the qs so perhaps that has helped?

 

Funny thing is, when I tested the demo, I was already conscious of this issue and I went for a 30-mile ride whilst constantly playing tunes on the gearbox, going up and down like a yo-yo but try as I might I couldn’t provoke a false neutral and a slammer but when it came to buying one, I still pussied out!!! .

 

Update. The jumping out and immediately back into 4th gear then out again as you roll on the throttle from about 3k to 6k has got progressively worse. I deactivated the QS as with this activated it was practically unrideable, but is manageable changing gear conventionally with the clutch. Just accelerate as gently as you can in 4th or hang on to 3rd until higher in the rev change then go straight to 5th gear missing out 4th which is a pain if you want to use the low down torque eg over taking or accelerating out of a bend. In 4th gear the bike can start violently jumping in and out of gear. the first time it happened it scared the crap out of me as I was accelerating quite hard over taking, not full throttle, and there was an approaching car. Once the revs climb to 8-9k the jumping in and out of gear seems to go. It doesn't seem to happen in any other gear. I have only ridden just under 500 miles on the bike in my ownership. I do not consider having a fault like this in the gearbox satisfactory having ridden so few miles and such a short time of ownership. And to be fobbed off by Triumph's dealers is pretty poor. They should be taking a look at it as a matter of urgency as the bike is not safe.

Contacting the Triumph dealer I bought the bike from, they tried to make out it was my fault not changing gear correctly and then they had never heard of the problem, nor of the recall on the gear selector lever due to safety. Then when I said the bike was still under Triumph warranty they said they could take a look at it but I would have to get the my bike back to them at my cost. It cost me £180 for them to deliver it to me. They are 110 miles away and I would have to either ride it which I am not prepared to do in it's current state and certainly not in one month's time when they say they would be able to look at it as it will be winter.

Contacting other Triumph dealers nearer to where I live both say they have NEVER heard of this problem and the earliest they could possibly look at my bike is the first week of December when we could have ice and snow and salt on our roads. Why should I have to wait 2 MONTHS for Triumph to even take a look at my bike which has developed a serious and potentially very hazardous fault?

What is the point of buying a bike with a Triumph Approved Warranty bike if they don't stand by their warranties? Having to wait two months for them to even look at my bike is ridiculous.

I called one Triumph dealer about 40 miles away back at the end of July when the problem started happening and also problems I am having with the factory fitted Datatool alarm, but even then I was told they couldn't look at my bike until end of October as they had too many new sale bikes to prepare which is totally unacceptable as I am already a customer having problems with one of their bikes.

I visited a local independent bike shop this afternoon who MOT my other bikes, to get them to take a look at my Speed Tripe RS. The owner of the shop got one of his guys to test ride my bike straight away and he agreed there is a problem with the gearbox and it could potentially mean a costly rebuild, engine has to come out. However Triumph will want there own dealers to do this and who have their own software to diagnose or should be able to diagnose the problem quite quickly. But a wait time of two months is not on.

I shall be emailing Triumph UK HQ as such a long time for them to even look at my bike is totally unacceptable. I have only been riding it on short local trips 20-40 miles as the battery frequently goes flat if I don't place it on the Optimate trickle charger over night and the alarm is temperamental. I was experiencing false neutrals and then I couldn't actually get it into neutral when I came to a stop in 1st gear. The only way to do so was to switch the bike off then it went into neutral, but because of the crappy Datatool alarm the bike would then alarm itself, even though the dash and ignition were still on. I took it back to a nearby Triumph dealer in May because of this and they made some adjustments and it has been better since.

The bike was described as not a mark on it, practically new with only 1,100 miles on it before I bought it. This is the most trouble I have ever had with ANY bike I have ever bought. I'm seriously thinking of chopping it in for something else as the problems I have had with the bike and Triumph poor dealer experience has left a really sour taste.

 

I suspect the bike isn’t “jumping in and out of 4th gear” and yes, this is not an uncommon problem caused by damage to the gearbox due to hitting false neutrals when using the quickshifter.
A number of owners have had this issue and received a completely new bike - not now an option of course with the RS having been discontinued. Triumph U.K. are well aware of this issue as are the dealers - the gear selector mod is the approved fix but personally speaking - I think it is total BS and doesn’t address the problem.
Before buying my new bike, I was seriously considering the QS and even wrote to Triumph expressing my concerns about gearbox damage should I adopt this (at the time) free option - I was given TPMS instead.
It is not unlikely the previous owner p/x’d the bike having already experienced this mechanical Armageddon, filled his pants and simply got rid!!
When you hit a false neutral during a normal manual change, the revs rise as you open the throttle and release the clutch. As there is a mismatch between the speed of the gear dogs, there is much gnashing and clonking until the dogs are driven home, accompanied by one final, loud bang. This is wholly unwelcome of course but any damage is limited by the inertia behind the impact being driven by the mass of the rotating gear train, especially with the clutch now pulled in - which it invariably is, usually in panic mode.
When using the QS, you have the additional force imparted by the engine under power and a serious mismatch in gear train revs - the terminal bang is seismic and enough to seriously damage the dogs on the gears, so much so, that they will no longer hold.
As a dog lets go and loses its “grip” the interface will turn a revolution or part revolution before once again, engaging precariously and then slipping/releasing once more. This gives the effect of popping in and out of gear or a momentary and repeated loss of drive.
Your gearbox is almost certainly toast in my view and historically, Triumph replaced “new” bikes completely. As yours was “used”and the model is discontinued, the best you can hope for is a rebuild and if they’re honest . . . a small bag of left over parts which the tech couldn’t remember where they went on reassembly (I have no faith!!!).
I’m being facetious in my last remark but this is a major repair which is why Triumph invariably would simply replace the bike rather than pay dealer time for a rebuild.
If I was in your position I would be pushing strongly for financial consideration instead and put the money towards a new bike and if it’s a Triumph - buy one without a QS, whatever the hype from the dealer!!!
Good luck - feeling so sorry for you mate!

 

Thank you for your input however I don't share such a pessimistic view as you even if some of what your write is an attempt to make light of my situation.

Yes I have read ALL of this thread so I know what has been previously written.

At this present time my difficulties seem to be getting a Triumph dealer to even look at my bike in a reasonable time. Laguna motorcycles who I bought the bike from say I shall have to arrange to get my bike back to them. They are 110 miles away from me. They indicated they cannot look at the bike for a month. Triumph dealers closer to home cannot even look at it until end of November or start of December when it will be winter which is totally ridiculous some 7-9 weeks away.

I visited my local bike shop on spec yesterday late afternoon about 4:40pm where I get my other bikes MOT'd and they not only looked at it there and then, but one of their guys test rode it and confirmed what I was experiencing with it and that there is a fault with the gearbox. So why a Triumph dealer cannot do this or within a few days at least as a matter of urgency is beyond me. So my point is why even buy a Triumph Approved bike backed with a supposed warranty for peace of mind and bike free of any problems meeting their supposedly 'exacting' checks on a bike prior to it being sold which at this point seems not to be the case.

 

Sorry matey . . . Your post came up on my phone this morning and I responded there and then. I didn't realise you had complained about this issue previously and I had already responded and wouldn't have done so a second time.
My comments were made in good faith and I wasn't trying to make light of what is a truly frustrating situation to be in . . . I've been there before with other issues.
It is what it is . . . you can complain to Triumph direct and that might elicit a sympathetic response and I'll keep fingers crossed for you.
I'm puzzled why you are unwilling to accept what I have said, particularly if you have already read through the post in depth and your own trusted indie has already told you that the bike is likely to require a costly gearbox rebuild???
I hope I'm wrong and in order to cure your problem, all you need is a simple fix but I wouldn't hold your breath if I was you.
Good luck with it either way.

 

Doesn’t sound too different to the 2015 Yamaha R1 and R1m where there was an issue with second gear, I think it was down to a potential weakness in the gear no mention of a quickshifter.
My point being is that they released a recall, which involved replacing the gearbox. Think that was pretty much world wide too.

I’ve also had another thought having read a chunk of this thread apologies if it has been thought of already. Has anyone in the UK reported this via this link where no ground has been made with manufacturer? Just another slant.

Quote from the link

What counts as a serious safety defect
A serious safety defect is something:

• about the way the vehicle is designed or made that’s likely to cause injury or death
• that happens suddenly and without warning

Appears to fit the bill from what I have read so far

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and-faults/report-a-serious-safety-defect

 

I used my 2018 RS as part payment for new bike. But when I stopped by the dealer they told it was a broken “fork” in the gearbox causing the glitch in forth gear. Makes little sense to me I have to say, but I’m not a mechanic. The reason is that the issue only manifested itself once when going up in revs. If I stayed in fourth gear I could go to red without a second incident.

 

i do find it staggering that there are still denials from dealers about this issue, even though they did a recall on the Quick shifters.

for what it is worth, since triumph rebuilt my gearbox it has been faultless
still using the QS as aggressively as before and put on a few thousand more miles since the issues. this does suggest the issue can be fixed, but who knows how many bikes are out there that are susceptible to failing?

 

Same as the "hit and miss" smart keys. . . . Dealers have never heard of that either
Mine works when it feels like it. At least it will always work passively but a little random otherwise. Lings wanted a hundred notes for a diagnostic test before they would even look at it . . . yeh right - no chance!!!!