Rant of the day

It's not so much dismissive are wanting to draw a line under the discussion points. If you don't want to shake on it, call it a draw, and move on, just let me know.

 

I am in a 'red' state in the USA. I am not in a big city, rather in a little tourist town of 3,400 in the off season and 35,000 in the 'season'.

My next door neighbor is a certified trainer... he trains others to teach CCW - concealed carry weapons courses. He and his wife, as we sit around drinking, are constantly suggesting that I get a gun. I went so far as to get a permit and go gun shopping with my $700 or so budget.

As I handled the guns, I realized how powerful they were. If I were to pull out the gun it would be for only one reason, to kill someone. Right? Say there was a burgler in the house and I whipped the gun out. The burgler thought no one was home, as I yell he (OK, or SHE) spins around, and POW POW POW he is dead. All he was looking for was $40 for some crack or whatever and I killed the poor SOB. instead of etting him make off with my 10 year old TV. And honestly, whether he 'deserved' it or not, I would be the one left with the horror of blown out eyeballs and blood and guts spread over my walls and haunting me with nightmares. The truth is, not counting SOME few lost souls, robbers are not murderers, they just want dope.

Anyway the discussion point/line I want to move involves these fantasy shootouts. Yeah, I suppose it is true that there are some 'taxi driver' types out there who can be precise when slaughtering the bad guys. But... what is more likely to happen is that like Bob Dylan sings "sometimes you try to help someone out / you end up makin' it a thousand times worse". The fantasy shooter thinks he will hit the bad guy square between the eyes but instead he kills someones grandmother or child or dog or gets shot himself (ok.. herself) and the bad person escapes, or, fires back and HE hits some innocent bystander.

So, I see people in wallmart doing the open carry thing. Usually big effin bruisers who could kick my butt with one hand tied behind their back. I laugh to myself, oh brother, as if there is a need around here, like it is the old west or something. What mental twist thinks 'yeah, good idea man, I might need this in a gunfight today'?

I do not care one way or the other. There is no need to worry about it. The bumper sticker is true.. "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". I have had a gun pointed at me twice in my 71 years, once by a nut case who was waving it around in fear of me and the other was the police who were evidently in fear of me. People having guns is not as bad as most of us lefties are led to believe.

Many people are one issue voters. EX: Anti abortion (Republian) or Anti-gun (Democrat). It is the politicians falsely promising to ban guns then reaping those votes who keep the heat on the issue. It costs them nothing to promise it and golly, the effort fails by just one vote... again! hahaha They never want to control them, because they get elected promising to wave that flag. Same for anti-abortion, except for those yahoo's in Texas who want to succed from the union, that somehow think they do not need the rest of the country because they have oil and refineries.

 

You sure do have all the scenarios worked out in your head, don't you?

So if there's some nickel crackhead in your house you're perfectly willing to roll the dice on whether that "poor SOB" is just there to steal your TV and that's it? That's a pretty foolish policy, bud… especially at your age. The eyeballs, blood, and guts on your wall are very likely to be your own then. Also- you don't necessarily have to discharge a weapon in order to neutralize a threat.

Methinks you should get your money back from your drunken trainers and just continue on being a potential victim.

 

I clicked "like" on your post. Not because I think you are right ( I don't know) but because I liked the very rational way you worded it.

 

Well, you are not alll wrong. If someone comes in with a gun ready to shoot then, you are right, I would be out of the picture, a smear on the wall.
This city has been incorporated since 1952 and the only killlings have been among family and friends who lost control of their tempers.

MY Drunken friends - as you call them even though they are simply friendly gun toting social drinkers - are the ones suggesting that I do what you say: go get guns because someone might attack you.

I do not have every scenario covered. I simply don't worry enough about possible invasion or violence to go out and buy guns, much less walk around carrying the damn thing. It is hard enough to keep track of phone, walllet, keys.

If I see you wearing one, then like I say, I mentally roll my eyes and wonder what in the world has you so 'on guard' that you find yourself walking thru your neighborhood supermarket all decked out ike Dirty Harry. I think it is comical. But... go right ahead, if that is what you want in life. If it gives you the warm and fuzzies then go for it.

Many policemen never pullll out their gun in their entire career.

Say, I was doing like I used to, camping on motorcycle. There are some remote places where I was nervous about wild animals. A gun - and knowing how to use it - woulld have been nice. Lions... and Tigers .... and bears?... Oh My!

So, either you misinterpret or I am not clear, my point is this: guns are dangerous, I am like Barney Fife, I don't need or want one in my home and I feel strongly that I never will. I think MANY gun owners can't REALLY shoot straight and that them 'carrying' is risky to themselves and the people around them. Their fantasy shootouts might not work out the way they think, and the outcome sad..

But like I am sure you read: When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. As I shopped, I thought that getting a permit was a reasonable idea. Permits are good because it relieves the shop owner from saying "NO" to someone who suspicious or almost obviously off his rocker. If the police say he/she is entitled, then, that is to me, about all you can do.

You do seem very mean, calling me foolish, calling my friends drunks. BUT, it's not like we willl ever meet and have you call me or them fools and drunks to our face.

Even still, I do like your colorful ranting and passionate writing style. And, I'll continue reading what you write.

 

I made it very clear from the get go-

I take it you missed that, just like you missed where I said you maintained a "foolish policy" and didn't actually call you a fool. This is the internet, not the real world. I don't even know you. Moreover, you've been on this site for like a nanosecond so that gives me even less to go off of. You were pretty quick to judge me though… not that I care. I'm actually a pretty swell fella.

You're also assuming there that a trespasser/burglar is not going to have a visible weapon. Another very foolish conjecture. If someone's in your house or assaulting forward in your yard, it's on. Your "Poor SOB" logic and your worldly possessions are not going to save you. Google "21 Foot Rule."

I don't walk through anywhere "all decked out." I carry concealed. You will NEVER see me wearing one. Open carry is for idiots… and cops. We can discuss that if you'd like but I'm pretty sure we already agree here. And before anyone flies off the handle, I didn't just pair cops with idiots. They come with a "deterrent factor" whenever they're on the scene. They have a reason to open carry, and most if not all carry concealed while off duty. There's a reason for that. I also have 30 years experience carrying various firearms, hold several instructor ratings, and have easily expended over 250K rounds in training and a couple hundred or so on the 2-way. In addition to this, I've had to draw on someone one time. I didn't even need to point it at them. They got the message and retreated.

So I kinda/sorta know what I'm doing. YMMV. I will say, you're very quick to stereotype myself and gun owners at large. I can only say to anyone(in the States anyway where you can), if you're going to arm yourself you need to put at least a couple hundred rounds through your weapon about every 2 weeks on a range in realistic training scenarios. Just owning one is not going to get you there, even after your initial competency training.

I also follow another rule- alcohol and guns don't mix. That includes singing their praises while inebriated, and I take great offense to those who do.


And one more thing- NC isn't a altogether "red state" politically. I'm in NC too and own property about a km from the state capital. The governors have been traditionally Dems and the Reps hold more congressional districts by a narrow margin. Right now Dems control the state executive with the R's holding the legislative. Coincidently constitutional carry just made the votes last year but the Dem governor vetoed. There's likely enough votes to override the veto but the governor is dragging it out to the mid-terms with the hopes of getting more D votes to quash the entire agenda. Doesn't matter, open carry is still stupid.

https://ballotpedia.org/Party_control_of_North_Carolina_state_government

 

Tony Blair the war criminal getting a knighthood for causing the deaths of thousands makes my blood boil, there's a petition out to have it removed if anyone wants sign it.
https://www.change.org/p/the-prime-...-the-most-noble-order-of-the-garter-rescinded

 

If he turns up in Bristol after that they're likely to throw him in to the harbour.

 

I stand corrected. You did not call me a fool. You did calll my friends drunks but, again, I am sure that was only to add a little zip and color to your post.

Also, I was a little free with the word 'you' as my daily rant sloppily used 'you' when I meant to portray a toter. I do not know you and I agree that any judgement would be very knee-jerk, probably inaccurate. You say you are a good guy. Glad to read it.

Since you took the effort to reply, I will offer a comment or two about what you wrote.

First, and logically sound is my retort that "me being here for a nano-second" is t-totally irrelevant to the propositions you put forth. (in LOGIC this is termed 'an adhominem - you attack the person not the proposition)

You say about me that "I (me - Donnie-boy) am assuming a visible weapon. Well actually I painted a hypothetcal scenario where the burglar did not know I was home, and I capped him and I was not sure that is what I would really want to do ... kill an unarmed intruder.

You speak of how I want to stereotye you and gun owners at large? I do not consider that a Hasty Generalization. My 'data' is that: few of the dozen or so gun owners I know surely do not practice even every 6 months. Therefore most gun owners are not good enough gunslingers to have it out.

Otherwise I think we are on the same page and agree with much of what you write.

I say if you (oops, I mean a person) wants a gun, go for it.
You encoourage ownership.

You say open carry (with some exception) is stupid.
I agree.

You say gunslingers should have training.
I agree.

You say no drinking and shooting.
I agree.

The point I fail to make is WHY I do not want a stinkin' gun and why you should agree that maybe it is not for me.

FIRSTLY and most importantly... I detect no credible threats! No one is breaking into this dump with a gun... any burglar so far down on his/her luck that they rob me is just a petty thief. That is the nature of my neighborhood.

And so it is that because there are NO THREATS - credible or imaginary thoug somewhat realistic - I pause before getting a gun. Fear will not send me shopping, buying bullets, guns, gun safes, gun cleaners, going to the range, practicing, bullet proof vests, protective earphones. I am not willing to spend time to go plinking on a regular basis in order to keep my skills usable (thus not self-endangering).


SECONDLY, I honestly do not want the experience of having to kill a burgler. I know, it is within rights, yada yada yada. But I am not the judge/jury/executioner type.

In my own crazy way I think the junkie types that would lower themselves to rob me already done sold their guns and now they need another $40. Because we make drugs illegal, they become criminals forced to steal, even though their drug habits themselves are victimless crimes. C'mon man is that who we want to kill, just because it is technically legal? Someone's son or daughter, a loving person driven to petty crime because of societies rules? Those are the only people who will affect me. Not murderers.

Anyway, to those that hate the idea of gun ownership I say "lighten up". Needing a gun permit is reasonably good for helping a dealer decide to whom he can confidently sell a gun. Let that be the end of it.

To those who insist on carrying one, I ask "WHY", really, do your honestly and truly think you need it? Well ok then, I think you are a little paranoid, and SUSPECT (but don't know) that your fantasy shootout coulld well be your demise or the demise of an innocent bystander.

To those who have one under their pillow or on their night stands, I hope you are not the groggy sleeper I am if ever you find yourself pulling out the persuader. I think you have every right to have and own it.

Happy new year one and all.

 

So bottom line my “willing to roll the dice” assessment is valid. Not a big deal, man. You be you. Your vision of the world has absolutely no effect on me or my modus operandi. Moreover my rights here are regularly challenged and typically smacked down in federal courts. You do you, I’ll do me. We’re a good couple hours distant.

And to the offense you took to the “nanosecond” comment- read it again. That was merely a way of illuminating what little I know about you, of which even if you’d been on here a year or two, I’d still know nowhere near enough to judge you. That in turn is something you’ve demonstrated no reservations to judge those you disagree with on this matter.

The only thing to add here that is you’re very prone to accuse me and those like me as maintaining “fantasies” and now “paranoia.” That’s stereotyping, bud. We’re all gun nuts waiting for that fantasy shootout, right?. Newsflash- I live in the real world. By your own text the only one here maintaining fantasies, as well as perfect nightmare scenarios is you.

You make A LOT of assumptions… across the board.

 

and pt2 is:

 

Well, yeah, you said it for me! I agree with you!

I steadfastly ASSUME and JUDGE the following to be true, however stereotypical, however paranoia laden, however imaginary:
People carry guns around on a daily basis because they IMAGINE a scenario where they are involved in a shoot-out and assume they will emerge victorious, escaping injury themselves, hurting no bystanders, carrying out justice, being the good guy. In some conceivable scenario, their weapon might very well be fired, and they might inflict death.

Is that NOT the reason a person carries a gun around?

How is that some sort of wild and crazy false accusation?

As I have written in this post several times: If you want a gun and want to carry it around my neighborhood and have the permits required, go ahead. Furthermore I am well aware that you do not need my stinkin' permission. I tell ya, I DO think it is 'nutty', it is ridiculous, unnecessary to the point of being comical, and not at all worth the effort and expense. That is why I chuckle to spot open carry or learn of ccw at the Wal-mart. I can't hep but wonder "what in the world do these people think they are up against? What is going through their heads?, Why do they feel so compelled?".

As an aside...why CONCEAL carry? That can only be to take advantage of the elemment of surprise in an imaginary shoot-out as described above? It offers advantage compared to a weapon in plain sight.

One of my refrains echoes yours Mr. G: Training training training. I JUDGE, I ASSUME I STEREOTYPE that the majority of gun toters are not sufficiently trained. Neither you Mr. G. nor anyone can convince me they are. I put forth the proposition that because of that, they might very likely make a situation worse, rather than better. That is why I do not like it.

Oh wait...I could be mistaken! Is there a course for non-police that Mr. or Ms Guntote typically takes? A course that might include, for example...(let us imagine) a shooter with an automatic weapon has invaded the shopping center, on the other side of the fountain... Ms. Guntote realizes she has 10 rounds, she is pretty good aim at 50 feet. Training dictates that her next move should be.....?

Is THAT what I am missing in my judgements and assumptions? Am I missing the idea that gun-toters are in fact safe well trained accurate shooting steely-nerved people that we should all welcome as peace keepers?

It is one thing for a person to tell me that they want a gun around the house - I get that, I have no issue with that, and, too bad for me even if I did. But... training training training... guns waved in an emergency are often off target, and if your attacker has a gun, or takes yours, it could be curtains. That is why I don't want one. Too dangerous in my untrained hands. Go buy a hundred of em if you want, I don't care.

Mr. Golgotha, you ARE stereotypical, you ARE worried for your safety so you carry a gun, you DO believe you NEED to tote a gun around, and you DO imagine DEADLY shoot out scenarios, you DO think being unarmed is like rolling the dice. You ARE a gun-enthusiast, the kind others - such as yourself - might casually refer to as a GUN-NUT.

I do not begrudge or feel superior. I am simply painting the picture of you I have in my mind. What is NOT true in the preceding paragraph?

Me: I am stereotypical too: I'm not worried for my safety, I don't worry about someone hiding in the bushes, I do not imagine scenarios where I am attacked, defenseless, by overwhelming force. I do not consider being unarmed 'rolling the dice' - actually, more the opposite.

Like it or not, we are all stereotypical judging accusing people. That does not NECESSARILY mean we are wrong. It can be very meritorious to be so. We all need, sometimes, to acurately size eachother up, in order that we can all get along in this great country.
I think you or I should be able to do whatever we like so long as it does not encroach on the other.

It is warm enough today to take a ride even though gusts are hitting 25kph. Maybe I'll start 'er up, ride enough to charge the battery.

Happy new year Golgotha (the skull) I do respect you. Really. And I appreciate the effort it takes for you to express your point of view.

And happy new year to any one who sufferd through my rants - that IS the name of this forum, right? "Rant of the Day"? That is what I'm supposed to be doing here isn't it? hahaha

 

I have read with interest the two sides of the gun debate @Donnie-boy and @Golgotha . I have no idea what it would be like to live in a society as yours. Your opposing views have provided me with a terrific insight. My conclusion is that I would not want to live under the gun laws that you have. Stay safe and be happy

 

That works out all pretty well then because your wish was granted many decades ago. My wish gets reconfirmed just about every time it goes to federal court.


@Donnie-boy - You know almost nothing about me, dude… other than I disagree with you on almost everything you contend here. That, and I live up in Raleigh. You don't know when I carry, you don't when I don't carry. You've spent the last 24+ hours conveying your opinions, that's it. You're entitled to them, no skin off my back. And no, everyone doesn't stereotype, and everyone does NOT judge. You do however… a lot, and you reconfirm that every time you post, that and your vivid imagination on potential shooting scenarios… and gun owner motives. I have noticed that this… judging, stereotyping, etc, is a very common trait of the left-leaning set though, to which by your own admission you are a member(BTW- I'm 3rd party). That, and generalizing, which is now another thing you've now shown to be prone to as well. These are ironically what you guys are VERY inclined to accuse your opposition of too. So to all that I would then also disagree to your claim of "I don't begrudge or feel superior." You've been kind of putting yourself on a bit of a pedestal and talking down to that which you don't agree with and to that which I think you don't understand but have very clearly arranged in your mind.


Rock on dude, you be you.

 

Like I said stay safe and be happy

 

That line did make me chuckle

 

Aye, the kettle calling the teapot it seems to me.

 

"Twitter is an enemy to America and can't handle the truth…” but she had an account and contributed… wouldn’t that just make her an accessory to the evil???



https://www.reuters.com/world/us/tw...esentative-marjorie-taylor-greene-2022-01-02/

 

What's a Twitter?

I suggest actually reading the thread then, I'll warn you though- I'm not the verbose one.

 

Good Health and Safety standards are obviously a good thing. (When I was a student, c,1970, I had a holiday job with a local building firm, which once involved spending several days digging up a reinforced concrete cellar floor in Slough with a pneumatic drill. Ear defenders? Dust protection? What were they?)

But there's an awful lot of managers nowadays covering their arses by requiring hard hats to be worn in situations where they are either completely unnecessary (eg surveying perfectly sound buildings) or completely useless (eg falling out of a 90ft hoist). It's all about ticking the boxes.