Front End Dip

Discussion in 'Daytona' started by Chubzilla, Mar 8, 2021.

  1. Chubzilla

    Chubzilla Well-Known Member

    Oct 3, 2020
    180
    93
    Black country
    I have a 05' daytona 650 with 22'000miles on it which dips really bad under breaking, I know they should be rebuilt at 24'000 (but not sure what needs rebuilding or replacing) I'm not the lightest guy in the world at 18st and had the front end stiffened up which helped.


    My questions are

    Will it improve alot by just getting the seals and fluid replaced or is it worth replacing springs and other parts?

    Or

    Is there an after market option that won't cost the earth?



    It's my first bike so not riding it particularly hard and may do a track day in the future but from everything I've read the standard set up should be more than enough for my ability, I just want to feel more confident on the bike as I'm backing off/panicking in faster corners and it's going to cause me to crash at some point.
     
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  2. capt

    capt Elite Member

    May 8, 2016
    3,050
    750
    western Australia
    Do seals and oils.

    Put a spacer atop the spring , this will stiffen up the front.

    You can adjust the the spacer thickness to check out how much stiffer you need to go.

    Cheapest way , you can use plastic pipe of appropriate size.
     
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  3. Hubaxe

    Hubaxe Good moaning! aka Mr Wordsalad :)

    Mar 25, 2020
    1,694
    800
    Aix Les bains - French Alps
    #3 Hubaxe, Mar 9, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
    New oil already improves a lot.
    I would start with that, and the seals while the tubes are out of the bike.
    A spacer can be added later. It's just sometime difficult to push and put the tube cap in place.
     
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  4. sprintdave

    sprintdave Nurse,he's out of bed again

    May 25, 2014
    1,532
    750
    Birmingham
    Heavier grade oil will help too.
    If standard is 10 grade go for 15 or maybe even 20 but I would go 15 first
     
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  5. joe mc donald

    Subscriber

    Dec 26, 2014
    14,318
    1,000
    slough / burnham
    Yes I usually go for heavier oil. And yes I have many times in the past added equal spacers to the top of the spring. But if you intend to track day the bike get on the oilins site and see what they say or maybe even find a cheap set.
    Joe.
     
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  6. Yorkshireman

    Yorkshireman Crème de la Crème

    Dec 12, 2015
    3,399
    1,000
    Barnsley
    Be careful if you go the way of putting spacers in because it’s easy for the spring to become “coilbound” at its full compression and that is something you definitely want to avoid. Cheap way is to use spacer(s) and thicker oil, next have the bike set up for your weight and intended use with premium products (Maxton etc) or change to something like Ohlins set up as above (best have deep pockets).
     
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  7. Kinjane

    Kinjane Active Member

    Oct 15, 2017
    238
    43
    Bristol, Land of Enger
    Springs are going to be well past their best at that age and mileage, the bike was probably sprung for an average 80Kg rider when new.
    You'd definitely benefit from replacement springs and more so from heavier duty ones. 0.90kg/mm matched to decent hydraulic control would be far better. Possibly even 0.95kg/mm springs.
     
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  8. Chubzilla

    Chubzilla Well-Known Member

    Oct 3, 2020
    180
    93
    Black country
    Thanks for all the advice guys,

    So the plan will be seals replaced and heavier weight oil.

    I'll suggest spacers with the guy who is doing the work for me and go from there.

    I'll leave upgrading the forks as I will only do 1trackday in the near future and thats only if I can get the bike to where I want it, I'm in no major rush
     
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  9. Chubzilla

    Chubzilla Well-Known Member

    Oct 3, 2020
    180
    93
    Black country
    Pi
    OK so after seeing your comment I'm now looking at springs aswell

    Have you got any suggestions that won't break the bank?
    I've had a quick look and most look roughly the same price.
     
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  10. capt

    capt Elite Member

    May 8, 2016
    3,050
    750
    western Australia
    @Chubzilla , any new spring would be a slight improvement. The bike hasn't done enough miles to be seriously degraded even though it's 16 years old . Additional spacing might be enough, even with new spring's to get less compression under heavy braking. Stiffer spring might be attained by extra coil's/length , and then you need to adjust spacing anyway.
     
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  11. Kinjane

    Kinjane Active Member

    Oct 15, 2017
    238
    43
    Bristol, Land of Enger
    I've used K-tech (Derbyshire) for springs in the past, they list a set for a 2004 Daytona as measuring 37mm diameter and 375mm in length and available in different spring weights. If you decide to upgrade seek advice from their experts.
     
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  12. Chubzilla

    Chubzilla Well-Known Member

    Oct 3, 2020
    180
    93
    Black country

    I'll take a look thank you
     
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  13. Chubzilla

    Chubzilla Well-Known Member

    Oct 3, 2020
    180
    93
    Black country
    That's true, I'm always a bit confused by the age vs miles, I done weeks of research when lowering vans and cars in the past so I think I just gotta keep learning about all this and see how it goes.
     
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  14. joe mc donald

    Subscriber

    Dec 26, 2014
    14,318
    1,000
    slough / burnham
    Chubzilla
    And there is Hagon they do a great range also progressive.
    Joe.
     
  15. Chubzilla

    Chubzilla Well-Known Member

    Oct 3, 2020
    180
    93
    Black country
    Thanks for that, is there any chance yiu could explain the pros/cons of normal springs and progressive please for my application?
    I get progressive will be smoother but because of my hefty manly body would a normal spring handle my weight better?
     
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  16. joe mc donald

    Subscriber

    Dec 26, 2014
    14,318
    1,000
    slough / burnham
    Chubzilla.
    No most people who build pro springs do around your weight and style of riding. And they do improve the handling and take the rough out of the ride. But good strong standard springs are all right as well.
    Joe.
     
  17. Chubzilla

    Chubzilla Well-Known Member

    Oct 3, 2020
    180
    93
    Black country
    That's impressive they do that, thanks for coming back to me with thst.

    I can't wait to have plenty years riding experience so I can advise other people
     
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  18. capt

    capt Elite Member

    May 8, 2016
    3,050
    750
    western Australia
    Springs will with age sag , if you leave any vehicle sitting on its wheels , over time the springs will settle to a new height.
    If the vehicle is loaded up whilst it is sitting still it will sag more.
    With motorcycles up on centre stands the front Springs carry/take the load.
    If you lift both wheels you protect tyres,springs and bearings from ageing.
    During my Army career , I was posted to 21 Supply BN. They stored trucks for many years , all were supported off their wheels ! Suspension in fully unloaded position.
     
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  19. Chubzilla

    Chubzilla Well-Known Member

    Oct 3, 2020
    180
    93
    Black country
    Makes sense, like flat spots on tyres of cars left in one spot for years
     
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  20. Chubzilla

    Chubzilla Well-Known Member

    Oct 3, 2020
    180
    93
    Black country
    Hi, you commented on my post a week or 2 ago about ktech springs, unfortunately they weren't very helpful after sending a decent length detailed email just to get a reply 'we don't do parts for your bike'

    I've since found out that the springs are the same in the D600 and d650 after many many hours of searching, and calling many companies,


    I was looking for fork oil on their website (ktech) but they only do 2.5w and 5w oil but when I've checked mine takes 10w and you recommended getting thicker, I just wondered if I had got something mixed up as I thought the higher the number the thinker the oil (so I would need 15w)
     
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