Sprint St Gen1 3000rpm Idle

Discussion in 'Technical Help' started by John Boston, Nov 30, 2020.

  1. John Boston

    John Boston Member

    Nov 30, 2020
    28
    13
    Bristol
    I have a 1999 Sprint St. Mot is due this week but the revs were rising on rh turns and a high idle speed. I guessed a pinched throttle cable so removed tank and freed the cable from between the frame rail and fairing. Idle still too high so removed airbox to find butterflies didn't appear to be closing fully so temporarily added an extra return spring. All looked good, refitted everything, now it won't idle under 3000rpm!
    Web search, ah, check for air leaks, yes someone had bodged a scottoiler connection into one hose, now perished. Removed connection and replaced hose, still 3000rpm idle.
    More Web searching. Ah, yes, maybe need to reset idle with tuneecu, luckily I bought a cable yonks ago. Found useless website but managed to work out can download to my android phone, for a fee. Done.
    Now what? There are no instructions.
    I'm a bit of a luddite and more used to carbs and idle screws not new fangled tech.
    Connected USB cable to obd2 connector, nothing. Asks for Bluetooth connection, why?
    Ok so I'll use my laptop. How do I download software? Who knows. I can't get it to download.
    So, I'm stuck. Can't understand why the idle speed suddenly changed and cant change it back. Now I have to drive to work and pay for parking and the bike mot will run out in 3 days.
    Can some please explain in the simplest terms how to get tuneecu to work on laptop or Android. Assuming this will reset idle speed and turn off the management light that has now appeared.
    Many thanks, John
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. John Boston

    John Boston Member

    Nov 30, 2020
    28
    13
    Bristol
    Hi Guys, bit surprised no one has replied. But I can't expect miracles.
    I've tried again with the android version on my phone. Nothing happens when I connect the lead. Though to be honest I'm not really sure what to expect.
    Still not managed to download pc version. Every link seems to point to android version (.apk?). How on earth do I get it to download to my pc? And how come so many people seem to have it. Am I just a bit thick?
    I have succeeded in getting the correct driver for my lonelec lead, yay!
    Now what do I do, help urgently needed.
    If someone can explain why it suddenly started idling at 3k, that would be a start. I'm baffled.

    Cheers, John
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. dilligaf

    dilligaf Guest

    Wish I could help you out mate but I’m not familiar with tune ECU :confused:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. John Boston

    John Boston Member

    Nov 30, 2020
    28
    13
    Bristol
    Well, there is progress, of sorts, anyway.
    Took another close look at everything and determined it's nothing "mechanical".
    So, tried the app one more time; can't get it to do anything. Surely it should work with a cable and I've tried 2 otg cables.
    However, on another Triumph forum (sorry!), I found download instructions from lonelec website. Another a number of attempts I actually got the software onto my laptop and connected it to the bike, yay!
    Then I ran out of time. So, back on it at the weekend. I'm hoping it's the TPS reset, just gotta work out how to do that. I know I've seen instructions somewhere, but if anyone wants to remind me, that would great. Also, how to save current and download a new map. I believe the current is 10078, so if anyone knows a better one for s standard gen 1, 955 St with s beowolf exhsus
    Well, some progress. A thorough check revealed nothing mechanical, so back to android app, still won't work, even with 2nd otg cable, waste of £10.99 imo.
    However. On another Triumph forum (sorry!), I found download instructions and via the lonelec site have successfully downloaded the pc version. And it connected to my bike, so I'm in, but ran out of time.
    So. At the weekend I'm planning to reset the TPS and download the best map for a standard gen 1 St with beowolf exhaust, if anyone knows a good one. Current map is 10078, I believe.
    Cheers. John
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. joe mc donald

    Subscriber

    Dec 26, 2014
    14,337
    1,000
    slough / burnham
    John Boston
    You need this in the technical section. Tune ecu I know nothing about. Now is the cables are free flowing not sticking. And a good thing I have done in the past try disconnecting the return cable and try they sometimes are the culprit.
    Joe.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. John Boston

    John Boston Member

    Nov 30, 2020
    28
    13
    Bristol
    Hi Joe,

    I have a separate thread in the technical section, so maybe should continue this discussion there.
    The gen1 bikes only had a single cable, so no return to check unfortunately.
    Annoyingly I have a pair of cables from a gen2, as I broke one a while ago. Also got a few other parts left over if anyone's interested.

    John
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. John Boston

    John Boston Member

    Nov 30, 2020
    28
    13
    Bristol
    Well, I think I've killed my bike.
    Connected Tuneecu and read TPS voltage as 0.96v. Fiddled with cable and TPS position (how are you supposed to adjust that, there is no adjustment?) and managed to get voltage down to 0.72v.
    So put it back together and started up, idle speed 2700rpm. Ran it to warm anyway. Got warm then dumped all its water on the ground and melted the lower fairing around the exhaust. Temperature gauge didn't go above normal.
    Tried TPS reset on tuneecu. Idle speed about 1500rpm but then revved it, shot to 7000rpm and wouldn't come down. Turned it off. Very hot and turns over very slow on starter. Is it seizing?

    Anyone got any ideas before I break it?
     
  8. John Boston

    John Boston Member

    Nov 30, 2020
    28
    13
    Bristol
     
  9. John Boston

    John Boston Member

    Nov 30, 2020
    28
    13
    Bristol
    I would upload an image of the. tuneecu screen but can't work out how to do that.
     
  10. Sprinter

    Sprinter Kinigit

    Aug 17, 2014
    6,029
    1,000
    uk
    Wow, You need some professional help, I wouldn't start it again until you get some answers,
    Go to your local bike shop and try to speak to a mechanic
    Go on Tune ECU web forum and post,
    Speak to @D'Ecosse on here.

    I dont think its an ecu thing cos the right hand turn increasing revs does not sound like a soft wear issue. Have you checked the rubbers around the head from the throttle bodies for cracks or leaks?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Sprinter

    Sprinter Kinigit

    Aug 17, 2014
    6,029
    1,000
    uk
    I have tune ecu but only used it for simple things so far, as luck would have it. If you have the correct lead ( and its picky) then it is plug and play. You seem really keen to have a go. Remember you can damage your bike beyond repair, or beyond cost effective repair easily with this soft wear. Sorry I would like to be more help.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. John Boston

    John Boston Member

    Nov 30, 2020
    28
    13
    Bristol
    Good call on the inlet rubbers I'll check those again, I may even have a spare set.
    Otherwise there is a good bike mechanic not far away, I will be talking to him this week.
    Cheers, John
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Sprinter

    Sprinter Kinigit

    Aug 17, 2014
    6,029
    1,000
    uk
    Please, update this thread, when you do.
     
  14. John Boston

    John Boston Member

    Nov 30, 2020
    28
    13
    Bristol
    Hopefully I've just uploaded the tuneecu screen shot. This was before a tweaked the TPS voltage.
    Dunno if anyone can see anything useful from this.

    Cheers, John

    DSC_1559.JPG
     
  15. D'Ecosse

    D'Ecosse Senior Member

    Jun 23, 2019
    271
    113
    CA, USA
    #15 D'Ecosse, Dec 7, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
    That sounds like your throttle was not closed - then you have gone and tried to adjust the TPS voltage for a not-truly-closed throttle
    You must note that zeroing/calibrating the TPS does not change anything to do with air, it changes the amount of fuel
    When it idles too high - outwith the control capability of the IACV - it is fundamentally getting too much air and in this case I suspect the actual throttle was not closed which is why a) it idles high and b) your TPS voltage was high.
    Other (more typical) causes of excess air are the IACV hoses are cracked or perished or loose fitting, or there is an open port in the IACV manifold - but because of the high TPS voltage it more makes me suspect that fundamentally the throttles not closing far enough

    p.s. adding an extra return spring won't help if the throttle cable is already too tight - ensure you have some free play at the grip - if in doubt disconnect the cable completely and see how it idles

    p.p.s. On the early TB/TPS there was an o-ring fitted which can cause the throttle shaft to stick - that o-ring does not actually seal anything so can be removed
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. D'Ecosse

    D'Ecosse Senior Member

    Jun 23, 2019
    271
    113
    CA, USA
    So was this connected into one of the three idle control hoses (which sounds like was tee'd) and you replaced that hose?
    Do inspect the others - but also be sure that you connected to the correct port on the IACV - you will find that there are FOUR nipples on the IACV, one of which is occluded - that one of course is not utilized and the three hoses should connect to the open nipples (if one hose it connected to the closed nipple, it will leave one open to atmosphere which is then a large leak)

    (the image below shows the gen 2 TB's however the IACV is the same and that is intent of the image, not the throttle bodies themselves)

    TB_IACV.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  17. Ducatitotriumph

    Ducatitotriumph Crème de la Crème

    Apr 25, 2019
    2,181
    1,000
    Rothwell
    I think that you adjust the tps by having a closed throttle, and then loosen the tps mounting nut and rotate the tps.
    When it gets to the correct voltage, do it up.
    Also, I wouldn’t go changing maps at the mo until you get to the bottom of this prob.
    You hardly need another fault!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. John Boston

    John Boston Member

    Nov 30, 2020
    28
    13
    Bristol
    Well guys, thank you very much for your input.
    I have slackened the cable to ensure free play in throttle, also removed extra spring. I have also checked the iacv hoses and that they are correctly located on the 3 open ports.
    It does make total sense that the throttles are not closing properly, which is what I thought from the beginning. I have heard of this erroneous o-ring before. I will start again by removing it and see if the throttles fully close.
    That's a task for tomorrow. I will let you know how it goes.
    Thanks again, Jojn
     
    • Like Like x 2
  19. John Boston

    John Boston Member

    Nov 30, 2020
    28
    13
    Bristol
    Well I once again removed the TPS, no sign of any o-ring, maybe it had already been removed. No adjusting nut either, I think someone mentioned one. While I was there I swapped the 2 mount bolts for m4 stainless cap heads, can now use a cut down Allen key to remove next time. A good tip, sorry can't remember who from.
    Next, I was going to check inlet rubbers. But there aren't any. Seems the series 1 is solidly mounted with gaskets. I know S2's have rubbers because I've got a set and the throttle bodies come to think of it.
    So, another check of IACV hoses. Found a miniscule crack on one end so clamped it up with a petrol pipe clip and refitted airbox and tank.
    Fired up first time and idled at just under 2k! Wow.
    Hooked up tuneecu and got the results as in photo.
    I did a tune TPS. Restarted and idle now at 1500rpm. Ok, a bit high but I'm happy for now.
    Decided to do a couple of minor repairs to rear bodywork where 2 of the mount lugs had broken off. So out with the isopon p40. Will see how that turned out on Thursday when I'm next off work. Then I can give a brief test before I book it for an mot next week.

    It's been a painful week and a half, but seem to be there now. Learnt a hell of a lot and I'm eternally grateful for all the advice. Thank you.

    "It's been emotional". (Lock stock?)

    Ps, if anyone needs any more info, or, god forbid, advice, please don't hesitate to contact me. I've got a few parts knocking about too. Mainly S2 sprint St.

    John

    DSC_1569.JPG

    DSC_1572.JPG
     
    • Like Like x 3
  20. D'Ecosse

    D'Ecosse Senior Member

    Jun 23, 2019
    271
    113
    CA, USA
    The idle WILL be a bit higher when engine is cold - could be as much as 1800 depending on temperature. Only when it is warmed up will it be at the 'nominal' idle speed of 1250. The Idle speed is intentionally higher (via the IACV control) gradually reducing to the lower level
    If you look under 'mapedit' screen then select the 'idle' tab you will see the table for idle speed vs engine (coolant) temp
    So not sure if your 1500 was while engine still relatively cold
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
Loading...

Share This Page