Of course I don’t mind. You make good points. Except the one in your other post where you claim I don’t care about other people -you’ve missed that one wildly.
What is that person has a hidden disability which prevents them from wearing a mask are they still in the don't give a shit about anyone else category
Two groups agreeing on the data sounds like peer review at work to me. I've had a look at some of the official SAGE members and there seems to be a very broad range of disciplines including virologists, pharmacologists, biologists, chemists, epidemiologists, bio-safety experts and public health experts (your social scientists). The list goes on but it seems safe to assume there are 'hard' scientists in the group as well. I do wonder how they are effectively advising across so many areas but I don't suppose they all sit around one big table to do it. Someone at the University of Cambridge did a study (published in the BMJ) with masks of various materials, including common fabrics used for homemade masks, to see how effective they are at filtering particles around the size of most viruses. That study showed them to be quite capable, although it didn't take in to account fit, and repeated washing degraded the protection. As with all proper science, other studies should be able to repeat those results to corroborate the findings if they're accurate. I haven't gone in search of those, just done a cursory search for information.
Unfortunately to make a succinct point it's necessary to deal in generalities. For clarity I don't think that anybody with a disability that makes a mask uncomfortable should wear one. I think the woman that had a fit at the wife's desk on being asked to wear a mask because she'd just put fresh lipstick on does.
Didn't hear the interview. Content aside, could Scally just be crap and unfamiliar with radio interviews? Not making a case for him in any way, just a factor.
I'll have to take your word for that as i didn't hear it. I'm not sure one interview undermines the whole group, though. I haven't done well in all my interviews, either.
I work around asbestos and various RCF particulates on occasion. These are known bad dust that will really kill you. To enter these areas, I have to be professionally fitted with a rated dust mask and tested to make sure I have a good seal. We throw the masks away on a time base. RCF is about 3-4um and COVID is 0.14um for the largest. Draw your own conclusions.
Presumably the important difference is that all RCF particles must be filtered. The purpose of masks for Covid is to reduce the amount of aerosol particles released in the area. Nothing I've read suggests surgical or fabric masks reduce infectious aerosols to zero, but there's evidence that that they do reduce the spread, even for droplets of <5um. So wearing a mask is still better than not wearing one, it just doesn't guarantee containment.
@Octoberon You make a good point that I have encountered previously. So we can agree that proper mask usage has some marginal benefit, or it is better than nothing. Consider this: In the USA the infection rates for mask mandated states vs. voluntary mask usage states really shows no statistical difference. The answer, in my opinion, is much more complex and also goes back to testing, classifications, and data keeping. I have to wear a mask in an industrial environment whenever I come into contact with people. I can witness numerous misunderstandings, incorrect signals, and dangerous situations simple because we cannot communicate. I don't know what to do. I am simply frustrated due to the virus and lack of any good plans. I suppose it exposes societies helplessness in these situations.
I'd say the benefit is probably more than marginal but really the research reports and data are a bit too much to digest and summarise for a non-expert like me at this time on a Sunday night. The statistical data you mention doesn't quite correlate with the research on the effectiveness of masks but then transmission isn't just aerosol. There will be factors such as contact transmission, temperature, ventilation and goodness knows how many other variables. As you say, it's a complex issue.
An example of statistical difference for mask usage providing benefit that is more than "better than nothing".. And the authors indicate that mask usage is more effective than social distancing or lockdowns. Simpler, too. And I don't enjoy wearing a mask any more than anyone else. https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818
I think the biggest issue, regardless of mask wearing or not, is the conflicting advice. Not just different groups saying different things, the same outfit giving conflicting information, sometimes on the same day! If there was a, ONE, simple system, folk might follow it better? Not "go out, but stay in, meet your family but don't meet them, go to work but stay at home...." why would anybody listen to them?
Could that be because, like everything else in this wretched pandemic, the key thing missing is place and context? We are getting wound up about daily deaths of 250 with no mention of ‘normal’ daily mortality in a population of nearly 70M.
Very good point @Callumity For instance.... (quick Google later) "Alzheimer's led to the deaths of around 80.6 people in England per 100,000 in August, compared with 7.2 for Covid-19." But how many rate as a Covid casualty because they couldn't get help they needed, not necessarily because they had it? That's the problem with statistics, you can always twist them to suit the needs that you want to prove. Like those adverts you see on the idiots lantern "80% of people surveyed agreed" and in the small print it says 'out of a sample of 114 people' Ultimately the only person you can rely on for your own safety/peace of mind is yourself. Sadly, nowadays, there don't seem to be many people prepared to do that.
The man must be a biker! ‘The virus is gone for now. It will probably come back in winter, but it won’t be a second wave, but just a cold. Those young and healthy people who currently walk around with a mask on their faces would be better off wearing a helmet instead, because the risk of something falling on their head is greater than that of getting a serious case of Covid-19.’ Beda M Stadler former director of the Institute for Immunology at the University of Bern, a biologist and professor emeritus.