Check Your Frames For Cracks!

Thanks for the information, please post in the Street Triple section as well, you are more likely get more hits off owners of these bikes in there.
It seems to be that Triumph have experienced similar problems but have done nothing about warning their dealer network & adding the checking of the torque on that engine mount, absolutely ridiculous!

 

IMO if the frame is apparently cracking due to using the wrong torque on the engine mounts then the frame and its welding is either not fit for purpose or the frame has been jigged up wrong when welded at the factory.

 

This has absolutely shocked me and the fact they've done nothing is scandalous.
I'd be contacting the motorcycle press and telling them the story if I were you buddy.

 

I also have come across this problem. I have a 2010 Daytona, which I’ve owned for 6 years and has 31k miles on it of which I’ve done over half that myself.

I noticed the crack after getting it out of winter storage. I have my bike serviced by Triumph and they didn’t pick up on it at the time (but why would they? It’s not on their servicing schedule).

I immediately contacted my local dealer who told me to contact Triumph UK aftersales report so I wrote them an email which I got a prompt reply to effectively go f*ck myself and it was my fault I didn’t check my engine mount bolts were torqued correctly. I’m on my own. I understand that my bike is now 10 years old but if your car or bike literally snapped in half after 30,000 miles you’re telling me that you’d just put it down to simple wear and tear? Thought not.

Triumph seriously need to acknowledge that this is a really serious manufacturing defect. The sad truth is, this can so easily be avoided but literally tightening the engine bolt nuts periodically.

 

If that's the case retightening of the engine mounts should be part of the service this sounds like a bad design flaw and triumph should have done a recall like has been mentioned above go to the motorcycle press and shame them into taking this seriously

 

They seriously cant claim that it is something that will happen if the engines bolts are not as tight as they should be, while i understand an engine being part of the stressed frame but making a frame that is not rigid enough without the engine is ludicrous ...i have never seen a Vincent, Velocette or Honda frame do this in the same situation...they would be better off gluing the frame together if the welds are that bad.

 

The very first Speed Triples 1996 ish had a recall for having a week point at the headstock weld if Triumph were prepared to do that then why do they ignore similar problems
Don't give a shit anymore and too big for their boots

 

The Explorer 2014/ 2017 had similar fail on the frame near the exhaust hanger.

 

It's weird that it doesn't say anything about checking the engine mount torque settings in the owner's manual.
Typical triumph after care...... totally Shocking!

But nothing surprises me, I was in the same situation with a year old bike, the factory washed there hands of it and if it wasn't for my dealer (Newcastle triumph, great bunch of lads) and the new rocket I'd never of bought a triumph again.
I think what makes matters worse is the fact you know they don't give 2 fks, in reality (face 2 face) I'd snap them in half for fobbing me off.

P.s
This is my last comment on this thread, cos the feelings I have on the manufacturer are proper p!$$!ng me off.
Contact the motorcycle press lads and all the best, I really hope you get somewhere.

Pete

 

Perhaps an email to the Motor Ombudsman?

https://www.themotorombudsman.org/vehicle-recalls

Alfie

 

Doesn't cover bikes
https://www.themotorombudsman.org/knowledge-base/does-the-motor-ombudsman-cover-motorcycles

 

Surely if it's a life threatening fault and there is no obvious sign of crash damage or abuse - the manufacturer has a duty of care. I may be dreaming - but is this not the case?

 

So if one lower frame bolt isn’t at the correct torque setting the frame can crack on both side!!!? Sounds like a bad design in the first place or they are using piss poor quality metals/alloys when making them.
If Triumph are shying away from this matter they are a total disgrace. Let’s hope no one get seriously hurt or worse before Triumph acknowledge this is a serious issue.
Presuming the bolt(s) came correctly torqued from the factory why did it become loose in the first place? Were they thread locked at assembly or did the bean counters consider the cost wasn’t worth it?

 

That was from the time that Triumph made bikes that where built to last and not designed to fall apart if not serviced by Triumph technicians....bit like the car industry talk to a main dealer mechanic these days and they cant fault find without a computer.

 

Surly the problem lies with the engine not being shimmed to the frame correctly and tightening the mounts stressed the frame?

 

I don't have much knowledge of welds, but as Tricky-Dicky said "if the welds are that bad...."

As far as I can find out, welds fail in specific places for specific reasons and you need an 'ology to talk about it. But I looked at Mr Smo's photo and thought it was odd (and rare I think) that the crack formed right down the centre line of the weld and in a short run of frame that can't move much between two engine bolts. The vertical section of frame behind this bolt, to which the swing arm mounts, is much longer and has all the loads from that.


If you search for weld failures you find details of "throat" and "longitudinal cracks" for which there are very specific reasons which seem more to do with the quality of the weld than the stresses being put through the joint.

Now most of us don't touch frame to engine bolts apart from those with crash bungs, so why is it reasonable to expect the owner or dealer to touch them or check them periodically if they are not deemed safety critical, like caliper bolts or something.

If the bolts has come loose since the factory did them up with loctite, then there is a problem with the loctite or the torque setting. (like the gear linkage coming undone).

I can see that if the bolt comes loose, and they would have to on both sides, which is not a coincidence, then the stresses from the swing arm will mobe up into that short section of frame with the welded joints.

So my questions are;
-did the bolt come loose on it's own or was it helped by the owner/mechanic by not correctly re-torquing?

-is the focus on the bolt a deliberate red-herring to hide the fact that the weld was a bad one from the start and it was always going to crack?

If Triumph know that it's a bad weld, then it's not surprising they want to brush it off as a recall on a batch of frames would hurt big time. It's certainly easier for them to assert that it was someone else doing something with that bolt after it left the factory and very hard to prove it wasn't.

And I'd certainly agree with Rocker that if the bolts are tightened onto the engine without shims to correct any misalignment caused by the frame springing away from the jig after welding, then the stress crack there could be caused by the factory.

Quote here from an HSE pdf on weld failures written by The Welding Institute;

"In load-carrying fillet welded joints, which may involve welds either transverse or parallel to the direction of the applied stress (or a combination of the two), there are two potential modes of fatigue cracking. One involves failure at the weld toe and the other cracking from the root through the weld throat. However, if weld throat failure occurs it is clear that the optimum strength of the joint has not been developed, since a higher strength could be obtained by increasing the weld size.
When toe failure supervenes no further strength increase is possible by increasing the weld size. Hence in the current fatigue design rules (1) two sets of design stresses are given, one relating to plate failure (Class F2) and one to weld throat failure (Class W), and the effect of using those design stresses should be to arrive at joint dimensions close to the optimum."

And a couple of diagrams from an image search

 

I have tightened the engine bolts on my 2015 Street Triple today. While they were'nt exactly hanging loose, they did stand a tightening. These bikes do have four frame adjusters. This is a section from the manual:-

Installation
1. Position the engine beneath the frame.
2. Raise the engine, looping the drive chain over the
output sprocket as it is raised.
, . Caution
Unless the following engine mounting bolt installation/
tightening sequence is precisely followed, severe frame
damage can occur.
3. Align the engine to the frame and carefully fit the
right hand centre engine mounting bolt (located at
the rear of the cylinder head) ensuring the engine is
still adequately and securely supported.
4. Align the left hand centre engine mounting and
using tool T3880103, tighten the frame adjuster to
3 Nm. Carefully fit the bolt but do not fully tighten
at this stage.
2
4
COLIC
9.4 Service Manual - Daytona 675, Street Triple and Street Triple R tuMP
Downloaded from www.Manualslib.com manuals search engine
4
1. Front frame adjuster position
2. Centre frame adjuster position
3. Rear upper frame adjuster position
4. Rear lower frame adjuster position
6. Using tool T3880103, tighten the two rear frame
adjuster sleeves to 10 Nm.
1. Rear gearbox bolt
2. Right hand spacer
1. Left hand spacer
Engine Removal/Refit
5. Temporarily insert the lower rear (gearbox) bolt from Note:
the left hand side, ensuring the two spacers are
The frame is fitted with four frame adjuster
installed as noted during removal,
sleeves, located on the left hand side of the
The bolt should only be inserted far enough to
support the two spacers, as fully inserting the bolt
frame, as shown below.
will restrict access to the frame adjuster sleeve. Do
not fit the nut.
1. Tool T3880103
2. Rear upper frame adjuster
3. Rear lower frame adjuster
7. Fit the right hand front bolt (located at the front of
the cylinder head), fit a new nut and tighten to
48 Nm.
1L1MP Service Manual -Daytona 675, Street Triple and Street Triple R 9.5
Downloaded from

So who knows ?
Was the engine fitted correctly in the first place. My guess is that it wasn't on the bikes with a cracked frame. And why were my engine bolts loose ?
OK not loose loose, but not tight tight either ?