Speed Triple Rs 4th Gear Problems

It was to late for my first RS, as it destroyed the gearbox. It was installed on the bike before I took it back for a replacement bike, but it still failed. It was transferred to the second RS and it still false neutraled and slammed into the next gear. I only allowed that to happen once before turning it off. So this is not a fix to our bikes unfortunately. At least not to the two bikes I owned. There is more to it than the linkage issue.

 

I have had the replacement linkage part installed for about 3 months now and it has not solved the issue fully. There is definitely more to this issue than just the linkage.

 

I spoke at some length to a Triumph Technical guy at the NEC show and he was adamant that the new linkage (when correctly installed) should cure the problem. My dilemma is that I have the original linkage that is causing me no problems. Apparently this is due to be changed at the next service as a matter of course, even though there has not been an official recall...

 

“Correctly installed” is just lining up the dot on the spline, a two year old could do it. Was your linkage arm contacting the quickshifter? Even if it wasn’t, I would get the new linkage arm installed just so it doesn’t contact the quickshifter.
This brings up a good point. With the bikes that aren’t having this issue, it doesn’t seem to matter if they have the old or new linkage. Some have even had the old linkage come into contact with the quickshifter and still no issue. Which also seems true for some bikes that have the issue, as it doesn’t matter what linkage arm they have, they still have the issue. So this leads me to believe there is more going on and Triumph has no idea what it is. Bloody shame really.

 

Landed today.

I called my dealership and the word 'assembly' relates to just the clamp (and not the entire assembly). The part they are fitting is T2085100 which replaces A9930469.

Let's see if we're all told the same thing

Mine had already been replaced as a preventative measure - I did have the telltale contact mark, but have never experienced a problem. I stopped using Shift Assist back in April until the modified clamp could be sourced - and now it's as slick as it should be.

If you've already done damage through false neutrals etc, this part isn't going to provide cure - as we already know.

 

As a complete side issue to this Triumph problem, I took my Aprilia RSV-R to AP Workshops in Tamworth to have some valve checks done, Griff the owner and well respected guru of all things Aprilia spotted my quick shifter, his comment was that I should remove it or at least use it sparingly. He said that the gearbox on the RSV will not stand the strain that the QS puts on it. I heard similar comments about the 2016 Speed Triple when I was at Three Cross a couple of years ago, I guess some gearboxes just won't take a QS, whether this has any bearing on the later Speed RS gearbox & QS system I don't know, was the gearbox uprated to take the QS on the RS?

 

That’s very interesting Billy. Technology these days, all manufactures are trying to outdo the other, whether it’s good for our bikes or not. As far as the gearbox on the RS, I thought it was upgraded, but don’t know for sure.

 

Unfortunately this part didn’t provide a “cure” for my brand new replacement RS either .

 

The other issue here is that we don't actually know exactly what damage is actually being caused cause no one seems to be stripping the faulty boxes down and inspecting them in any detail!

 

Mine was stripped down completely. The gear cogs were badly damaged from approximately 8 false neutrals. The teeth of the gears were not damaged apparently, as it’s the cogs that make contact during a gear change. There was also damage to the 4th gear, but I’m not sure what. I was informed that two months later the gearbox had still not been repaired. A lot of parts were damaged and I believe were on back order as well. Jesus.

 

Terminology not quite right, motorcycle (& car) gearboxes have constant mesh gears and dogs engage drive to the relevant gear as/when required.
A cog is an individual tooth on a gear.
Just being a pedantic arsehole
Doesn't change the fact you end up with shrapnel in the bottom of your engine.
If the gearbox isn't built to suit q/s this is what you're going to get and as Bad Billy suggests Triumph aren't the only manufacturer to succumb to this market pressure. A widget that is inappropriate for road use IMO

 

Hahaha, yes you are correct, dogs is what I meant to say . Thank you for the correction, as it is important for a proper description of what was damaged.

 

False neutrals tend to result in damaged dogs, so this does make perfect sense. If there are any photos of the parts, or the physical items available I would love to be able to take a look at them.

 

Sorry I was only told of the damage, not shown anything.

 

No worries Steve, I understand that OEM's normally like to hang onto them.

 

Thanks guys for a fabulous and informative thread, which I have spent the morning reading from start to finish. I do believe that I know or at least suspect the cause of the S3 quickshifter issue and it was at least touched on by Burny_13. Although I do not own a Speed Triple, I do own a 2008 Tiger 1050 and a 2015 S1000RR with shift Assist. As a single man with no impediments to further bike ownership, I have been thinking about a 2020 Speed Triple, after being "unfortunate" enough to stumble across a Youtube review and infect my mind - I have a test ride booked later this week. It is interesting to note that the demo, a 2019 comes resplendent with QS but all three brand new bikes currently held in stock do not have a QS fitted and this is despite Triumph UK's current offer of a free QS fitted to all S3s sold in the UK prior to March - Triumph UK clearly haven't learned their lesson but I sure have and will ask for something else instead!!!
OK - the 1050 Tiger always had issues with its gearbox. Prior to purchase, I test rode the demo and whilst changing up, probably 3-4th and hard on the gas, I hit a false neutral. I immediately pulled in the clutch and coasted at idle, whilst a horrendous cacophony of bangings and knockings came out of the gearbox as the dogs failed to mesh and until eventually, a massive and sickening bang, confirmed the upshift had completed. I knew what had happened as I had been weaned on a diet of CZs and MZs in the late 70s and their boxes harboured more false neutrals than Mc's in a Scottish phone directory. Despite the warning . . . . I still went on to buy a new 2008 1050. I already knew the bike was prone to false neutrals but several visits to the forums confirmed it, although as with the RS issues, some owners swore blind their gearboxes were like a knife through butter, whilst others complained of dangerous occurrences, which on at least one occasion, caused the rider to fall off. I still own the bike and have spent the last 12 years perfecting my gear changes and rarely if ever do I hit a false neutral but . . . . . . get lazy, just a little too casual or a brief lapse in concentration when shifting and that seismic, tympanic eruption from the gearbox is always awaiting me after each stab of the gear lever.
When upshifting, the technique on the Tiger has always been to not fully close the throttle but rather , to just momentarily relax or reduce the applied throttle whilst pulling the clutch and applying a sustained and forceful pressure on the gear change lever and keeping it up, until I can feel the selector shaft has fully located and the gears engaged - sometimes this is near instant and other times not. If I attempt rapid changes as I will always do with the S1k, nine times in ten, I will get away with it but there's always the remaining one occasion that ruins the whole ride for me and so I just don't do it - I change gear as though I'm riding a Massey-Ferguson tractor with no synchromesh!!!
In May 2014, I test rode a 1050 S3 and was amazed by how slick the gearbox felt in comparison and when I researched it later, found that Triumph had "addressed" the earlier issue, not by admitting there ever had been a problem but by commenting that the new TigerSport (and presumably other 1050 models) now had an improved gearbox with an increased number of and improved selector forks blah blah blah . . . If I'm honest, I forget what they did to it but what I do know is the S3 I rode had a sweet box and I even attempted to provoke false neutrals with some sloppy changes (because I wanted to know what I might be about to buy) and during this brief encounter, it resolutely failed to oblige.
I strongly suspect the issue with the QS is not the quickshifter itself. Furthermore and as confirmed by Steve and others, I don't believe the quickshifter clashing with the actuator arm is the problem either. I'm sure it doesn't help but likewise, I don't believe it's the root cause of the problem.
I strongly believe that the fault lies with the gearbox design itself and that it still needs a positive and firm shift action when changing but as in the case of the original 1050 Tiger, this likely varies from bike to bike. So . . . . initiate a change but don't push the gear lever firmly enough or sustain the pressure and the QS unloads the engine correctly but the actuating force on the lever is insufficiently positive for the selector drum to move fully and/or the dogs to engage - you're now in your false neutral but with one difference from a manual change - full throttle applied and a QS which is about to release whatever power your right wrist is currently calling for. Hell, it was/is bad enough on the Tiger when idling with the clutch pulled, so what it's like on the rev limiter with the clutch engaged, I can only imagine!!!
The bottom line, if you're going to fit a QS to a gearbox, the mechanicals need to be precise and their action consistent and reliable and I suspect the S3 1050 box just doesn't lend itself well enough to the technology rather than the quickshifter itself being at fault.
It is always possible that cut-off timing could be an issue and in particular, if power feeds back before the mechanical process of changing gear has completed but surely, such an explanation is so basic as to conclude that Triumph will have exhausted this possible line of investigation.
I have never once hit a false neutral on the S1K. Clutchless changes are jerky under 4K with the engine under load but with the throttle opened marginally more than "neutral" in the current gear and in particular with the revs over 4000, changes are imperceptibly smooth. That said and especially at oil changes, the S1K guys are forever comparing the state of their magnetic drain plugs and fretting about whether or not they are damaging their bikes by using Shift Assist. I must admit, whilst my plugs seem to attract only the most modest amount of debris, some that I have seen look more like metallic porcupines, such is the amount of swarf collected . . . . .
Thanks to all of you guys for your honesty - If I buy an S3, I will forego the free quickshifter and ask for TPMS instead but fit them myself - I don't like the dealers tampering with my bikes - ever!!!

 

I’m pretty sure the fault lies in the gearbox as well. As far as a positive shift goes, believe me, after the first couple of horrendous false neutrals my mechanical action was as positive and direct as humanly possible. But it still didn’t matter. I also think quickshifters that work properly are still probably causing excessive wear in the gearbox. Time will tell, as they are still a relatively new item.

 

Hi Steve . . . I have no doubt that once alerted to your QS issues, you were pressing your gearshift determinedly. I suspect the bikes vary from machine to machine and whilst I would expect a determined shift is a pre-requisite, I wouldn't mind betting some bikes just don't give consistent results. I think back to the endless debates that used to go on around the false neutral issues when I first had my Tiger 1050 - many riders claimed they hadn't experienced even one and yet I knew damned well that at least for my bike, unless I was ever mindful when changing gear, false neutrals were more contagious than coronavirus in a swingers' sauna..
I also agree with you that when set up and functioning correctly, a QS will likely place more strain and wear on a transmission than a competently executed manual change and whilst I do use the QS on my S1K, I do so sparingly and contrary to the instructions, never on a fully open throttle.
I will post again after my testride - I'm going to try this QS to the hilt even though I have no plans to specify one for my bike!!

 

Alan, was a pleasure reading your post. Your use of language is impeccable!

" more contagious than coronavirus in a swingers' sauna." in particular tickled me!

Enjoy your test ride, keen to hear how you get on!

 

Thanks Burny . . . I will report back for sure
;-)

Stop Press: The demo bike has migrated to another branch and so my test ride has been postponed until 27th. I will report back thereafter.