Non Starting T100 Bonnie 2017

I think you should try triumph directly again and tell them it's not fit for purpose and quote this act https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/consumer-rights-act-2015/consumer-rights-act-2015 I'm sure they'll change their tune have a read, also mention of the appalling service you have received from said dealer and your very wealthy biker mates who won't be using their services ever either

 

Starter relay might be ‘lazy’. Cheap, fast, easy swap.

 

Are no slightly different but surely it's still in warranty

 

This problem is irritating but soluble. We just need to understand the EXACT symptoms. Your descriptions so far are a bit ‘thin’. Is this one of the last 865 Efi bikes or the 900 water cooled successor?
We need to know:
Does turning on the ignition ALWAYS result in lights, speedo sweep etc., irrespective of whether it then starts or not?
Have you noticed a more reliable outcome with neutral selected and sidestand up and clutch out?
Is the failure simply zero and silent response to the starter button? Do you hear a click?
What % of no starts do you get?
Has the battery been load tested? If it is in marginal condition it could be the issue.
Does the bike start reliably from jump leads or still act up?
How do you start it at all? Perseverance?!

I am not sure how mechanically minded you are but often the dealer’s mechanics are more in the nature of fitters - better at replacing bits than solving problems.
Simplistically you effectively have 3 circuits in your bike’s electrics:
Accessories
Ignition
Starter
The first two are always on when you switch on.

The third only operates when the starter is depressed. It has a relay (an electrically energised switch) that cuts headlight power and feeds the starter motor instead. It is the relay that audibly clicks as it feeds the starter. They are generic parts common to most vehicles and £3 to £5 from any auto factor. You get the odd duff one.

There are three safety lockouts to prevent inadvertent launch! There is a gearbox switch that detects neutral, a clutch switch in the lever and a sidestand switch. The switches act in concert so if you pull in the clutch it overrides the gearbox and you can start in gear. The sidestand switch kills the ignition if the stand is down and you engage gear. If any of them stick then they can inhibit the starter and ignition.

So, to recap, we need a very precise description of what is and is not working up to the failure to start to eliminate and narrow down the possibilities.

Finally you bought the bike privately? Triumph’s warranty covers manufacturing defects not breakdowns unless it can be shown the latter was caused by the former and that needs a solid diagnosis/fix. Are there any signs the previous owner fiddled, had 5 thumbs, rounded bolt heads etc., that might indicate interference?

If we cannot come up with a solid diagnosis my strong advice would be to buy a manual (for its wiring diagrams) then ring a mobile auto electrician. It will be worth it to be mobile by spring.

Give us a detailed description plus your own skill level and we will try to fathom this out.

 

I can't disagree with a single word of that and find it all very helpful, practical and useful - hopefully the OP feels the same.

However, I MUST say that everything you say here is (IMHO) EXACTLY what 3X should have been doing on each of the occasions it's had the bike back and, moreover, THEY are the ones that should be calling in the auto-electrician's (or the factory) when they realise that they aren't actually addressing the source, rather than the symptoms, of the problem!

I'd be utterly horrified - and very angry - to think any of my motorcycles would be simply left outside my house without my express permission, and the keys put through the door - that, I'm afraid, is rank stupidity, though they might have claimed that nobody would have stolen the damned thing because they wouldn't get it started!!

I think a VERY strongly worded letter to a senior manager in Triumph, copied to the owner/manager of Three Cross would be the first stage of my approach to the problem. Triumph provide a warranty for a reason - this is a classic example of that reason - regardless of the eventual, actual source of the failure.

My 10p.

Regards,


Adie

 

OK. Your problem HAS to be one or a combination of:

A dud battery - even newish ones can die of abuse, manufacturing defect, neglect. If it is marginal in its output the ECU may read it as flat and refuse to play. Whip it out and down to a local garage who can load test it. This is not a voltage reading (potentially misleading) but an indication of the amps it is putting out. If you have a multimeter then check voltage ignition on. The headlight load should be enough. You want to still see about 12.4/12.5 V

A faulty earth. Check the strap on the engine underside AND the battery post.

Starter motor issue. Check voltage at the motor +ve post to the frame with ignition on, starter depressed. If you have voltage your starter motor is faulty......or maybe just a lazy starter solenoid.

Starter relay. Park up where the headlight is reflected or position a mirror and look for starter on, lights out. If the light stays on and the starter fails to turn.......

Beyond that, if you have your multimeter or bulb you can trace power from starter button to relay and relay to motor plus the motor Earth.

Conceptually this is not too tricky. Ignore the plate and concentrate on each strand of spaghetti.......the intermittent faults are always the worst. Somewhere you have a dry connection or a dodgy component. You can do worse that squirt each switch from clutch, sidestand, ignition, starter etc., with electrical contact cleaner.

 

I can clearly see your dilemma (and feel your pain!) if Triumph themselves aren't playing fair, either. You're not in a good place ...... in more ways than one. The next nearest Triumph dealership to you is quite a journey away and they probably wouldn't be too happy to hear the full story behind your bike's errant behaviour, so getting another dealer on board might prove difficult.

We have simillar views on business but, regrettably, I believe they (mine?) are as outdated as some of my riding gear! Business is business and turnover/profit is biased towards volume sales and not customer satisfaction ratings, and nowhere more so than in automotive (of all kinds!) which is almost counter-intuitive in an age of very fast and widespread public communications.

Following Callumity's excellent information and advice seems a good way to proceed from here but I certainly wouldn't abandon the idea of getting the bike back to 3X for a proper resolution to the problem if this doesn't result in a long term solution. In fact, I'd phone and try to book it back in now - if you fix it in the meantime you can always cancel the booking! The bike may well need new parts (the handlebar switch clusters on a couple of Triumph models are reknowned for their faults and failures) so I would certainly be making a very strong written case to the Director(s) at 3X and ensuring that copies of your letters are sent to Triumph's UK After Sales Manager.

I can only wish you luck and a swift resolution to the problem. I'm sure you'll let us know how you get on.

Regards,


Adie

 

Hamro this is really a mistery and I can only imagine how frustrated you must be by now. I too bought mine privately, also a 2017 model and my hair stands up reading this. Cant the dealer where it’s at try a different wire harness and then start from the front top, down and back following the basics principles of spark, fuel and air to find the culprit that’s causing it not to start ? Callumity raised very good points, doing these things in sequence must rule out working components and steer you straight to the culprit. Is the dealer documenting what they have done thus far ?

 

Hamro
Firstly welcome to the Family. My 1200 had similar problems. I took it to Bulldog Triumph in Winersh. They had the bike for a week and it turned out to be a faulty connection on one of the plugs. It was a 2017 as well. But it never faltered after they looked at it. If it had of I would rode it back to Triumph and invited MCN to ask them why.
Ride Free
Joe

 

Pity your not near our neck of the woods or i would have had a look for you
What you need is someone who is confident, competent and analytical with a multimeter. With it being intermittent it adds to the frustration but with hindsight, once solved, it will all make logical sense (to a technical person).

A friend with a 675 2009 had a similar issue and it was the starter relay but due to loss of confidence we took a spare new battery to the Manx GP just in case. A fellow camper on a 600 Bandit couldn't believe his luck when I told him midweek we had it and didn't now need it. His battery had failed spoiling his week the night before

 

What a mess.
You are clearly at rock bottom.
Time to bite the bullet and spend a few quid I think.
I would now ask about / do some research to identify a competent auto electrician.
Detail the issue to said auto electrician and leave the bike with him/her.
What harm can this do, it might just fix the damn thing!
Just my opinion, but I know less than nothing about auto electrics and many other things besides.
Best of luck mate
Curly