T595 Not Starting

Bernie · Oct 16, 2017

I would guess that closed circuit when up allows the start system to run ie: the switch cuts the start circuit when down if in gear. Maybe the gear select switch then? Haven't got that far yet......

Oldyam · Oct 16, 2017

Sprinter said: ↑

Guess. The side stand should let you start with the stand down ( not in gear) so if you have no continuity is that the problem?
Click to expand...

The relay under the seat is clicking ....... is there a voltage from there to the solenoid coil ? its not unknown for the contacts to fail and the relay to still make a noise !

Also to add to this is the neutral light on ?

is the neutral light connected direct to the ECU ?

Have you tried putting a feed from the battery + to the starter solenoid coil wire ?

Bernie · Oct 16, 2017

Hey Oldyam
So the relay is brand new direct from Hella. Same id number as the one I removed ( which also was clicking and the bike ran with for over 500 miles until this problem but I decided to replace anyway )
Yes neutral light on and bike out of gear. No idea how the neutral light is wired into the ECU or the starting circuit.
Yes as I said bike turns over fine with a + feed from battery to solenoid.
As always cheers for the continued help

Oldyam · Oct 16, 2017

Do you have power to the solenoid coil when you press the start button ?
if no
Do you have power into the relay contacts, and when you press the start button power out of the relay contacts ?

Sprinter · Oct 16, 2017

http://www.triumphrat.net/daytona-d...ssue-no-start-no-headlights-no-signals-2.html

http://www.triumphrat.net/daytona-deliberations/464721-bike-wont-start-1997-triumph-t595.html

http://www.triumphrat.net/speed-triple-forum/134733-help-955i-speed-triple-relay-identification.html

Bernie · Oct 16, 2017

Hmmmm interesting reading sprinter. Many thanks. While I mostly follow and understand I have to be honest and admit it all really hurts my head. I'm not sure I have the ability to go through my wiring in that detail. I'm worried I bought a dog now or at best an old bike with complex electrics that is beyond my maintenance abilities. I would dearly love to junk all the switches and injection for carbs. Early Speedtriple ones fit?

Sprinter · Oct 17, 2017

go back to the basics
needs fuel
air
spark

you say the bike starts if you brige the starter then fuel and air arnt the problem
that leaves spark.
something is stopping the starter from firing that would be relays fuses connections or ecu what you said before about delay when pressing the start button makes me think of a connection issue, check all buttons and connector clean them and spray with some sort of cleaner, even a very small amount of corrosion can stop a current flow.

http://www.halfords.com/motoring/en...oil/halfords-electrical-contact-cleaner-400ml

A loose relay or ecu connection can aso f things up.
How is your battery it has to be over 12.something or the ecu wont let it try to start.
heres a guy on a 955i very similr to your and same problem I think

Theres loads on there, I put in " motorcycle starting diagnostic triumph"

Keep me posted and give as much detail as you can.

Bernie · Oct 20, 2017

Hi Sprinter
similar problem but his looked like a clutch switch problem as he is pulling it in and out? My switch is working fine.
So the latest with mine:-
Battery fully charged to 13.2v. Plugged into TuneECU to see if the diagnostics would help.Can you tell me whether the clutch, start relay etc in the "other" section at the bottom of the diagnostics screen should be accessible or not. I took a pic but the forum says its too big to upload.... On mine they are not highlighted so I cannot test them. Seems odd that the starting side of my bike is down and I cannot talk to that side of the ECU either.
Also i went round checking all connectors and wiring and that controls were working etc. All ok but when I pushed the horn button the horn made a feeble noise and the button started to smoke!
Took the horn off and it tested fine. Took the left switch gear apart and found the horn switch spring not returning. pulled apart, cleaned with emery paper, stretched the spring and switch operating ok. When I connected to horn and tried again it started smoking again....
I also tried jumping the bike from battery to starter again and it still turned over nice but would not start.
Could I have messed things up when I blanked the alarm off? I reconnected the alarm today but made no difference to anything so I blanked it off again..

sprintdave · Oct 20, 2017

are you saying you blanked the alarm off then it stopped starting??

Sprinter · Oct 20, 2017

The horn ;- something is shorting or electricity is going where it shouldnt, Is it oily? I take it you only pressed it for a second?
So if (no offence meant) you cleaned it and it still did it, then what did you miss and if you missed something there then what about some where else?

You charged and got 13.2 volts, much healthier,
The ecu may only open that option on the windows/android version ie the one you dont have I dont know enough about Tune ecu, having only used it to check my throttle bodies.There are two versions one for windows and the other for android both do things the other one cant.
When you charged the battery did the bike make more or different noises (pump prime) when you tried to start it?
The reason ( I think ) that it didnt keep going when you jumped it may be the ecu not kicking in cos it has not followed the procedure it requires and so its bamboozled.
You didnt buy a dog cos you rode it for long enough before this started.
Have you followed what Oldyam said on Monday ?
I still think the pause you had between pressing the starter and the starter operating, is telling.

Some photos of bike, so we can see the general condition, would be good ( every little helps)

You checked the connectors have you checked the relays, take then out one at a time clean and check then replace firmly
Put everything back to where it was when it stared, after you replaced the solenoid ( you could have let the battery dip below starting power.)

Is the fuel pump priming?
It seems to me this is not a huge problem. dont change masses of things with out changing them back You dont want to be making issues as you go or its circles for you. I had the delay with the starter and it was a connection.

Sprinter · Oct 20, 2017

And drop test your battery

Sprinter · Oct 20, 2017

Sprinter · Oct 26, 2017

Hay nows it going

Bernie · Oct 27, 2017

Hey Sprinter
Bit slow I'm afraid. Laptop now refusing to start up so can't get back into TuneECU. I have a feeling I didn't reset the TPS properly when I did the last map download which would explain why the engine wont fire with a jump. Everything else checks out good. Fuel pump priming etc.. Bloody typical
As soon as I can get that bit sorted I should be able to ride the bike to a local shop that has a mechanic there that is tipped to be ace with electrics.
I just haven't had the time (or brain power tbh) to go any further down the diagnostics route and am really worried I might easily make things worse.
Still love the bike. I'll be keeping it until I can afford a Street Triple which could be some time ;-)
Cheers for the support dude. I'll keep you all updated.
Bernie

Bernie · Oct 27, 2017

Bernie said: ↑

Hey Sprinter
Bit slow I'm afraid. Laptop now refusing to start up so can't get back into TuneECU. I have a feeling I didn't reset the TPS properly when I did the last map download which would explain why the engine wont fire with a jump. Everything else checks out good. Fuel pump priming etc.. Bloody typical
As soon as I can get that bit sorted I should be able to ride the bike to a local shop that has a mechanic there that is tipped to be ace with electrics.
I just haven't had the time (or brain power tbh) to go any further down the diagnostics route and am really worried I might easily make things worse.
Still love the bike. I'll be keeping it until I can afford a Street Triple which could be some time ;-)
Cheers for the support dude. I'll keep you all updated.
Bernie
Click to expand...

Bernie · Oct 27, 2017

More pics

Sprinter · Oct 27, 2017

Yeah before you know it you can cause another problem that masks the first. A determined little girl there. I have heard of TPS causing that type of problem, Good Luck.

Bernie · Jan 2, 2018

Hi guys
So I'm back at it after crimbo and New Year. Hope you all had a great one. So latest update
Bike sent to Triumph dealers techie. He said no fault codes on ecu and he was reluctant to do more as the cost would mount up at £83ph!!! He said starter turning slowly even with a boost.
I have now started stripping the bike down. Found that 5 and 3 bridged on alarm blanking plug causes the horn button to smoke! Disconnected and now ok.
Found voltage dropping quickly to 12.6v when ignition turned on. So there is obviously something wrong there. New batt on trickle charge to 13.4v. So don't know where to start now.......I would guess the ecu is not letting the starter circuit to activate due to low voltage. What could cause that drain???? Also there is only 11.7v at the side stand switch plug so that can't help.
Serious headache now....

thebiglad · Jan 2, 2018

It sounds to me like you have several issues :

1. Weak battery. You can charge a battery until it shows a decent voltage like 12.6v or more, but as soon as you put a load on it, such as turning the ignition on (which turns lights and fuel pump) the voltage drops really quickly. As a test, attach an additional known good battery and see if you get the same voltage drop when you turn the ignition on. IF you DON'T, the bikes battery is a gonna.

2. Bad earths. There is heavy current going between the starter motor, charging circuit and the battery. Thick cables, check/clean all the contact posts to ensure good electrical flow.

Bernie · Jan 2, 2018

Ok thanks Biglad.
The battery is new as posted so I would hope that isn't the issue. It maintains 13.4v until the ignition is turned on then quickly drops.
As far as I can see there is only one earth mount to the frame and I read 13.4v from the pos battery post to it so also seams not the issue although I would happily be proved wrong.
I'm now thinking that the main power relay might be faulty so am ordering a new one.
As always comments thoughts and advice always welcome

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